I get in or pull him out

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bro neo
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Post by bro neo » 07 Oct 2007

I got one thing to say to ya jan ...

"Please ... put the gun down."

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alladin
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angels university

Post by alladin » 07 Oct 2007

Sorry to hear another story of mental cruelty! It's not uncommon. Apart from the personal and emotional aspects, what strikes me and always shocks "lokiks" is the fact that BKs, with their dogmas and slogans, justify and legitimize merciless, cynical behaviours that are not considered accepted or sane by "normal" people!

How many times I heard BKs sigh and admit that, "BKs are worse than Kaliyugi people!". I don't know if there's any other sect or religious group capable of misusing the concept of Karma and individual destiny, in such an appaling way. And this whilst painting itself as a university to become angels!

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jannisder
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Post by jannisder » 08 Oct 2007

bro neo wrote:I got one thing to say to ya jan ... "Please ... put the gun down."
Sorry Neo, not right now. My fight is not over. And since the Adm is looking into numbers, i'll go for the 10.000.

Hoping that many involved in a BK affair shall read it all and get a lot wiser than i ever will be. I deal with the pain to help others. With all the support i get from all of you i survive and stay in battle. My God i wish someone could love me like i can love another. But my time will come.

BTW dear forum members. You have all warned me about what would happen when one is involved with a BK. It was so hard for me to believe because this person was and still is the most fantastic person i have ever met. It is not him but the indoctrination, the brainwash that turned him into a heartless, zombie, all into Yoga, not knowing what he is saying ore doing. Still he is a good person and more then just a lot of fun.

He is just full of himself being an angel and stuff ... But the human in him shall never die.

Adm do not delete account, me being "sober" again.

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paulkershaw
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Post by paulkershaw » 08 Oct 2007

Jannisder ...
Take heart and take care ... of yourself ... if I can help in any way let me know, even if its just to sound off or chat, whatever and in any way ...

Much love xxx P

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alladin
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affairs?

Post by alladin » 08 Oct 2007

Hi, Jannis. As I was reading your mail second time, the word "affair" caught my attention.

Neither you nor I are English mother tongue, so we may not know exactly what that means, but the feelings it definitely conveys to me are those of something transitory; not serious, not committed, with the flavour of dishonesty, at least form one side. The brother's.

I see a relationship as something different, where things are mutual and some effort and investment is made equally from both parts to make things work. Not out of compulsion, but out of love. These challenges, as BKs perfectly synthetize, are the differences in sanskars (personality traits) and karmic accounts (the s**t we all have to deal with every day). Then, interaction can contribute to the spiritual development of both.

If a decent level of complicity and clarity in communication is not available, how can you deal with all the obstacles? And I am talking about couples who don't have the interference or ingredient of the BK docrine abd disciplines, that may add up confusion, madness and internal conflicts, especially in the field of emotional involvement, celibacy, etc ... !

I am not giving any advice in this mail, just wanted to send you my empathy and good wishes, and share some of my thoughts according to what I also have been through in my personal situations. I asked myself many questions about what I can compromise with and what my priorities are; how far am I damaging my dignity and self-esteem if I accept deals that I don't feel comfortable with, how an increase in my detachment can make me less vulnerable and therefore decrease my expectations in the other person, lessening the pressure and the potential disappointments.

That horrible word and alien concept of "detachment", that is the opposite of my natural passionate typical "full on!" feelings, has come to my rescue, many times (I can only use it in moderate quantity, like the pinch of salt necessary in the cake!) and protected the love I felt because the habit of lowering the guard and being open to sorrow, ultimately, destroys love.

I have the impression that you are far more tolerant than me, and were able to give the brother time, space and love to sort himself out and decide what he wants and who he is. It is a good thing, as long as this being kept on a string doesn't kill you.

I found very valuable, interesting and refreshing all the recent talks on the Forum about suppression, celibacy etc. I wonder if you felt the same and if the brother could take some benefit from reading or sharing something on that. Love always. Hugs also to your dog!

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Oct 2007

I have to say, I am sorry but I always saw this end. Loving a BK, even an ex-BK, is pretty much destined to be futile and one way because of the mental conditioning they are subject too. Although, without any doubt he was taking love from you, in his mind he was testing himself from temptation and "serving" or "bringing benefit" to you. I wonder how much honesty or awareness there was in this from his side.

Personally, I can also see it from the BK side. And from a BK point of view, I think he should have been serious repremanded or denied access to the center until he sorted himself out and decided which way he wanted to swing.

This takes us back to an issue the PBKs raise up of the BKWSU being too lenient in their desire for expansion, comforts and 'landgrab' that they have allowed a drop in the quality of soul and the clarity of the practise to allow individiuals like jannisder to be played around with by so-called BKs.

Another argument for the requirement of a "code of conduct" and "clear labelling" on the package. Frankly, a concerned BK should turn a report on him in to his zone-in-charge ... if I was a center-in-charge or zone-in-charge, I would have told him to either cut off from you entirely for 6 months or have 6 months off away from the center to cool off and decide what he wanted to do with his life.

BK is not a spiritual pracitise that one can play both sides with.

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bro neo
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Post by bro neo » 08 Oct 2007

Believing in stereotypes is OK, but it's always better to know a person by his individual behavior. We do live in the real world now (as apart from BK Land), so I think to have a preconceived notion about a person because of a first impression or stereotype is good. But I think we should intellectualize (not with denial) people as potential individuals rather then just another member of a tribe, the BK tribe for example. By focusing on their behavior, and not so much what they say but rather what they do (and say and then do), we can judge people better.

Having said that, I guess what I am getting at is sure a lot of ex-BKs don't make the best of partners, long or short, but ex-BK is just another stereo type. We are all in the same boat but are all very different as well. Some of us have great destinies to fulfill.

The real deal is about becoming a really, deeply, whole heartedly responsible person (for self and personal responsibilities NOT others responsibilities!). Then finding another who has achieved this, naturally or by their own efforts. This stability and 'sanity' if shared by 2 people is awesome. I think this is what makes for a good long term relationship, ex-BK or whatever.

I wish I could say I have just described myself, but I most certainly have not. I strive for it though. Having a bf-gf, or marriage at the end of the day, is about either practicing for having babies and/or starting a new family, or doing it. So if we're not very selective in choosing our mate, we are not the only ones who could get hurt. The world is such a mess if not solely then mostly because of irresponsible parents.

To become a self-motivated self-manager (responsible, confident and interdependent person), and to find another who is also dependable and who we can really trust to commit, is how I understand coupling for the best in the 21st century.

Our instinctual lust, also called love at first site, or obsessions most often doesn't lead to good long term relationships. Its just the animal in us trying to make babies or bonds with someone we 'feel' is right. What's right for our beating hearts now could be hell for our futures. Of course lust, attachment and obsession has its place in relationships but for them to be the main priority is setting one's self up for a fall.

Too idealistic?

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john
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Post by john » 09 Oct 2007

bro neo wrote:Too idealistic?
Very thoughtful.

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alladin
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predictability

Post by alladin » 09 Oct 2007

Neo wrote:
What's right for our beating hearts now could be hell for our futures.
Unfortunately, this maybe true and disappointing, especially if passion was there and once people burnt out, and whilst still longing for that fire, they cannot find another "glue " to keep the relationship together ( poor children!!).
But doesn't what you suggest, a more rationalist criterium to choose mates, sound a bit like "arranged marriages", whose feasibility was discussed by parents around a table? With the only difference that here we would be making our arrangements ourselves, but still, with no space for spontaneity? It is true that instinct can mislead us, but it can also guide us, and often seemingly perfectly planned projects, fail too!
Because all personalities are complex, and often not very sane or balanced, even when the right ingredients seem to be there, people grow apart or some facet of personality- or karmic account!!- surfaces and becomes a big obstacle. Personally I don't believe in predictability from humans, maybe animals are less complicated and more predictable!
Humans are also masters in disguising and using words and all means available to make themselves appealing. A peacock's tail is nothing, compared to that!! Very often, apparently meek, wise people murder their spouse or kids. So, I agree, we should concentrate more on actions, which speak louder than words, and vibes too, are more reliable, rather than appearances ( body consciousness again!!).

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freedom
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Post by freedom » 09 Oct 2007

Relationships ... we all want to get it right! :D Or to work all the way to the end ... maybe no end ... I am practicing the Law of Attraction, kind of waiting for a good match to my feelings, good expectations, maybe a pinch of passion again ... 8).

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alladin
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modern times

Post by alladin » 09 Oct 2007

Man or woman? :wink:

BTW, talking about attraction. May I teasingly put it on a gross plan; how did the shaving session go? Smooth?

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paulkershaw
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Post by paulkershaw » 09 Oct 2007

bro neo wrote: Too idealistic?
Nope! I'd say this resonates to the understanding of the need to be able to love the self beyond all else ...

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freedom
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Post by freedom » 09 Oct 2007

To Alladin: MAN !!!! :lol: 8) :P ... and my shaving was smooth as always, by myself !! :?

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jannisder
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Post by jannisder » 13 Oct 2007

Keep your legs shaved, just in case!!! After a long practice you will not cut yourself anymore.

Just when you think you get the hang of it ... oops!!! Your bleeding.

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Re: i get in or pull him out

Post by jannisder » 22 Aug 2008

After working my ass of for this person, although with pleasure but in the hope I was doing him also a favour, taking care of him when is was seriously ill, mothering him and loving him, sharing my house, my money and my bed, the final word is now said after 2 years. We had some great plans!!! But all is gone.

I have to became a Brahmin, if not ... forget the plans.

Thanks bkwso.

Jan

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