I get in or pull him out

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abrahma kumar
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Re: Deprograming

Post by abrahma kumar » 24 Apr 2007

jannisder wrote:The days go as they go and are mostly good. You all know my goal, so that's that. How to deprogram a cult member is what I study and can use some advise.
  • Questions to make the member think again (what made you think again?)
    Social rewards?
    How to show BK lies.
    Show a lokik life that is not so bad ... etc.
Help me to make a scenario.
With no pretensions at all of having any de-programming know-how I fear that i have to resort to some BKWSU student cases that I have come to hear of - could be baseless rumours for all i know because my uninformed opinion would be that he might need to do a fair bit of that work himself - it is alleged that the following circumstances can put grease under the skids.
  • 1) If one's center-in-charge lets slip (to student's face) that said center-in-charge has a less than 'Godly vision towards' student.
    2) When one starts to appreciate that there are NO BK lies; just a lot of diffferent truths that counter the proposition that 'their' God is in fact the The One that you feel loves you come what may.
    3) Love

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Re: Deprograming

Post by proy » 24 Apr 2007

jannisder wrote:Deprogramming is now on my agenda.Questions to make the member think again (what made you think again?)
Hi Jan,

The first thing that made me think again was when I found out about the PBKs. I thought, why was I never told about them, what have the BKs got to hide?

Then I started to post on this forum, the rest is history - read my blog - from BK to ex-BK, and done on this forum and with "A little Help from my Friends".

Good luck, and keep your spirits up.

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Post by jannisder » 05 May 2007

We have all seen by now what the BKWSU can do to our loved ones, in spite of what we as friends or family feel.

Although I have the "brave" knowledge to get him free, it seems to be an never ending road that i have to take. Is that not what unconditional love is all about? Oh wow ... there is so much that i have to do ... I had, and have still, a wonderful life. All blessings seem to come right at me ... i received everything i ever wished for. Always happy and aware of my blessings everyday.

Now this person all full of Baba brings me sorrow. That is not the plan ... ! Ore is it???

My God told me to be an Angel, feel and explore. "Be an Angel of experience, feel pain. Only then you can support others and be there for them when they need you because you know how it feels, you have the knowledge . True feelings are more worth than a fortune ... of gold ...

You Angels are the strongest beings ever ... your strength is to love with your heart, even tears will wet your face. Your heart is the gift to make you as you are. You are just beautiful, and be like that ... Then you will be an Angel of God. Your heart must be a burden, to get where you are. Yet you can set it free because by trusting the greatest belief in yourself, even you are stronger then i can ever be. You, and just you are as i am as you!"

Full of emotion, to love and to let go, to hold and be ever loved by the ones that love you.

Your seat is here already waiting for you in heaven. I will be waiting for you. No matter what your life path is. No matter what you do or allow. I will be waiting. Just so ever proud the way that you are.

Love jan ... i do not know were this comes from ... just a thought.

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Post by jannisder » 05 May 2007

Told him i had a important meeting with all of you to discuss the Murli. Don't let me down. Next 48 hours, and ever after, I stand by on oog4u@hotmail.com (MSN)

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Help Available

Post by proy » 05 May 2007

jannisder wrote:Told him I had a important meeting with all of you to discuse the Murli. Don't let me down. Next 48 hours and ever after stand by on oog4u@hotmail.com (MSN)
What do you need?

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Post by jannisder » 16 May 2007

The latest Murli batch.

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Post by jannisder » 19 May 2007

Thanks!!! For the Murli.

I really feel for my dear friends Di and Katie, and i am going exactly the same way ... More arguments, more disbelief from me that he is even interested in me as a person, a person that gives what he needs at the time he desires. But then, if someone else calls him, he is gone! Then I am not so interesting anymore.

I told him that he does not live by BK rules, but he just don't care ... One day he hurts me. The next day he comes with a lovely present. To lokiks (close friends that know both of us), he can say that he is at my house, to others that might call, maybe students or else, he will say that he is on a visit. One moment i am just some person, the next moment a good friend. I am the only close friend he has but his detachment drives me away.

Of course, i want to be special to him. For a long time i thought i was. He gave me that feeling. But really, i am not. For me he is special. No matter what his lifestyle is or no matter what he wants to belief, but it has gone over the top.

As you all know I did 'The 7 Day Course' and 'The Advanced Course' to find out what is going on. "Reading this forum makes me feel the way i do" he said, and i should stop reading and posting. The Murlis i received were a great help but still not enough to openly explore the knowledge. "What is written, is how it is, and that's it!" So he said. On this forum, we got it all wrong ...

Its impossible to find any opening in the Murli that is psychological so well done written. No Matter what happens, if i let him go ... its ALL in the plan ... Why? And what he has done to me ... "Its all in the Drama" ... "Karmic account" etc. Absolutely no way of getting into his brain with some human stuff ... They told him he was getting his karmateet status ... he was so happy.

Impossible ... the way he lives ... hahaha ... No way!!! He is just an instrument to keep the centre open to recruit some more ... girls mostly ... with his charm! And he is really good at that! No big deal. He should be kicked out of the organization if they are really serious. Even at this point BKWSU don't care who is a teacher, as long a centre is run to recruit.

Thanks BKWSU for turning me into a hateful person towards you, while i was always so peaceful and happy. Made me the devil ... oh ... I already was ... forgot ... sorry! And i shall be ... The easiest way out for me is to leave him alone but then he is free from his greatest enemy, me being the devil in his life to fight. Its all in the Drama, so he gets it!
So BKWSU, send me your spooks and leave others alone. You just ran into the wrong person.

Love Jan to all forum friends.

To BKWSU ... I'll see you in Madhuban. I'll come as a VIP to spy on you, with worldwide contacts on my side. You can only dream about and I am loaded with money and I am a great actor, I can make people and break them. But you will be more than honored to welcome me.

Well, is that not exiting to look forward to?

Love Jan.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 19 May 2007

jannisder wrote:I told him that he does not live by BK rules, but he just doesn't care ... One day he hurts me. The next day he comes with a lovely present. To lokiks (close friends that know both of us), he can say that he is at my house, to others that might call, maybe students or else, he will say that he is on a visit. One moment I am just some person, the next moment a good friend. I am the only close friend he has but his detachment drives me away.
What is going on here Jannisder!?!

OK ... we just accept you have been chosen for the Secret Service to inspect, document and expose the BKWSU as it actually is and not as its shiney PR publications present. Thank you and well done!

Why not start to write a proposal for a documentary feature in your own language for some TV show to look at?

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Post by di » 19 May 2007

Hi sweet Jan,

Like you I have never hated anyone but I feel total loathing and disgust at what this organization does to individuals, and the people they are close to. So I am not happy that I actually have these feelings myself. What it has awakened in me? I mean, go and be a BK if that is what you want but only after they have carefully scrutinized you and you have had full disclosure to what the system is really all about. I wonder how much fresh blood they would actually end up getting?

Well, your man is as happy as my ex. On his way to karmateet, eh? Well my ex's task (I finally found out, it was like pulling teeth and I only got one sentence) is to create a vessel for the few people that are left after Destruction, so they can create the New Age. Well that makes a lot of sense to me ... Not.

So what does this all sound like? Both these men have had major issues with women as children and in the past as an adult. Both are vulnerable. Both want to live life with no responsibility towards others, just for their own well being and self-satisfaction. They take and hurt, and then do something to keep you wanting to hang on by just a thread. They give the merest hint of hope.

Then they join a blatantly deceptive organisation run by a matriarcal society that have their roots based on sexual hangups, the occult and, dare I say it, man haters. Then they treat these men (when they fully surrender) as slaves. All sounds pretty sick to me. Why would any one do it? As long as they are going to be one of the 16000 as mine hopes.

So, the men use this as power games with us, because they have issues with women and relationships; then they put themselves in the position of being a slave, a eunuch. Where is the rational thinking in this? Sorry, they are too busy getting 'high' from inflated ego, promises of Eden, being a King, and meditation where they probably would function better if they were smoking 6 cones a day.

I know my ex has done everything he could to hide from the real world and face his issues. This is just probably the most effective and legal one. They seem to feed off the guilt trips they give themselves, then as I said use their sexuality as a power. Possibly learnt off the SS? Other threads have illuded to this. Withholding physical contact with the hint of a promise or the merest of teasing can be a great power trip. This can be even more powerful than a sexual relationship. The rollercoaster or cycle with them seems to be guilt/lack of self respect/guilt/wanting to be love and to love someone/power/guilt/repentance/love/guilt and other thing you want name and round and around it goes.

These comments are for Jan and I. They are not directed at anyone else, because I don't know anyone else's background. But I guess if a shoe fits ... and there is some truth lurking there for any readers ...

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BKWSU Advance Party

Post by fluffy bunny » 19 May 2007

di wrote:Well my ex's task (I finally found out, it was like pulling teeth and I only got one sentence) is to create a vessel for the few people that are left after Destruction, so they can create the New Age. Well that makes a lot of sense to me ... Not.
What he is talking about is that the BKWSU have told him that he is a member of "The Advance Party" (or Advanced Party).

What this means is that the BKs believe that after "Destruction" a small number of humanity will be left and that this will be a mixture of BKs and scientist types that will,
  • a) build the actual physical infrastructure of the Golden Age, e.g. gold and gem encrusted palaces, the nuclear-powered, super-sonic flying machine, touch-of-the-hand musical instruments and,
    b) parent the soon to be re-born BK leadership as 'Krishna and Radhe'-like deities.
I cant remember if there were actually number given for the "Advanced Party" but, logically, one would have to presume it was more than twice the number of 900,000 deities so as to make one mum and one ad for each one ... actual details of how this is all to happen, how they are all meant to get to India and survive the Nuclear Holocaust etc are pretty hazy but, sure, all sorts of self-validating romantic myths and "visions" circulate to support this. Needless to say the BKWSU leadership wont have to do any work, just roll up and become royalty ... except for may be Om Radhe/Mama who might be leading the Advance Party.

The usual story is that all good BKs will "receive a strong pull from Baba" to go to India and will do so on the very last plane out before the bombs go off and the oceans swell etc ... that they will be able to wander across India safegaurded by their bodies of light free from being injured as their karma will be finished etc ... that they will give visions of being deities to the civil warring Indians AND ... wait for this ... be recognised and worshipped by their Hindu devotees. YES, I MEAN IT. 100% VERBATIM. Your hubby is going to become a worship worthy deity ... that is what "Baba says".

Millions will by that time recognize the BKs for who they are and be streaming across India to go to Mount Abu in Rajasthan where the BKs will be in deep meditation giving peace and light. The Thar Desert will be full of people and there would be a queue from Abu Road station all the way to Mount Abu to meet Baba. Yes, this comes from the top. There is also a minor problem here ... because of the numbers, Baba now comes at the bottom of the Hill in a new hall.

Now, generally what is told to Western BKs is that they have been chosen for this job because they were Indians and BKs in their last life, that they re-incarnated in a Western body for the sake of service, that they are twice born BKs ... and that explains how they "go fast" ... "the last go fast" i.e., late BKs make quick progress at the end, quicker than older BKs.
  • So, you can ask this these two things; is he in the "Advance Party" and is it his "second lifetime as a BK".
Yes, they used to tell us the same thing and, yes, we used to speculate amongst ourselves, tell each other and newcomers. I suppose it makes them feel more important. Physchologist would call these "compensators". Generally these are the elements of BK that researchers and media people never get anywhere near. I would be interested in knowing who was telling him ... Western BKs, Indian BKs; new or old timers.

This BKWSU "Advance Party" has nothing to do with the PBK's "Advance Party".

What makes me laugh is that there were never any mention of actual laborers ... I mean, who was going to dig the ground and lay the foundations ... who was going to work in the sweatshops making the electrical components, never mind novel micro nuclear-powered fuel cells. I think that is some hangover from the caste thing in India ... they are all middle class and expect there to be an army of bhelies to shovel *******.

From memory, the scientist souls were some sort of unique pure souls that took one birth or something and they just conveniently dissappeared to leave the stage clear for Karmateet BKs. How nice of them.

The other big problem is, like most things in India, that the plan is now serious behind schedule. Lekhraj Kirpalani and Om Radhe, reincarnated as Krishna and Radhe are meant to being crowned Narayan and Lakshmi around 2036. The start of the Golden Age proper.

Now, they are meant to be 35 when this happens, so that at 70 they can have their first kid (the debate is whether they have two separately or twins both at one, each couple a boy and a girl). This means that Lekhraj Kirpalani and Om Radhe would have to have been reincarnated already ... how and where!?! ( ... and did their parents actually make like the beast-with-two-backs and enjoy it? I shudder at the thought of it.). So, we have a big problem here ...

You see, Destruction was meant to have happened in WWII, 1950, 1976, 1986-96 ... Year 200 ... It used to 50 Years for Destruction and 50 Years to recreate heaven. But even that does not make sense because if construction started then ... stuff would already have been 50 years old before the deities start to play. Originally, the Yagya was only going to be 12 years long and, I think, the Golden Age just magically appear. So the "100 Year Confluence Age" and "Advance Parties" might have been later additions and Lekhraj Kirpalani and the BKs' inventions. Probably a PBK might know the actual history of all this. Most BKs wont.

Yes, so welcome to Bonkers BK Land Di. I promise you this this is all according to what we were told. I, too, when high on the Honeymoon Period, was encouraged to believe that I was a special ... a twice born BK and member of the nuclear winter surviving Advance Party that was going to build heaven. Sit down and logic it all out with him and I promise you will have him wriggling and squealling at you in agony ... but I would be interested to have an update on dates, times and practicalities. Thanks and good luck!

In this context, for "compensator" I mean, 'something used to string BKs along when the highs of the Honeymoon Period start to wear off'.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 19 May 2007

At first a gust of hilarity buffeted me on reading this
Well my ex's task (... is to create a vessel for the few people that are left after Destruction, so they can create the New Age. Well that makes a lot of sense to me ... Not.

and I hope that you all forgive me for such seeming frivolity with regard to the serious matters being discussed here. But this seems like an extreme misappropriation of Gyan! What a joke! If it were not for the REAL disruptive family scenes we read about on this thread one might dismiss this as a storm in a teacup that will one day blow over. I am really shocked at this turn of events! And Di's sarcasm is very understandable. Do any BKWSU teachers really encouarge students to think this sort of thing?! Surely not?!

ex-l, in my recent and ongoing experiences as a student with the BKWSU these matters are not given such a focus that I would make it part of my dharna to churn and actively dedicate my spiritual endeavours to. Admittedly, I can never put myself up as a model BKWSU student but surely this literal translation of Gyan ought to be investigated by Senior Sisters of the BKWSU. Heaven help us if we all started to think this way. I feel for you Di. Really I do. What utter and complete nonsense!

If this is true then a BKWSU senior representative ought to contact Di and get this matter sorted out before this situation gets even further out of hand!

Di, your husband needs help. Can you find out if the main teacher or any of the students at the Centre where your husband goes actively participates in activities of the BKWSU SPARC Department. It is trailed by the BKWSU as a "specific research project (Spiritual Application and Research Centre) to explore the subtle mechanics and influences of the human mind."? You can pm me the answer. Thanks.

As far as my experience goes, I have never heard a living BKWSU student attributed with any qualifications or "present active role" in the Advance Party. This is an 'accolade' traditionally accorded to the deceased. Since your Husband is very much alive I really do not understand what is going on.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 19 May 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:As far as my experience goes, I have never heard a living BKWSU student attributed with any qualifications or "present active role" in the Advance Party. This is an 'accolade' traditionally accorded to the deceased.
You have to remember, they were expecting Destruction around 1986-96, so anyone young enough was reckoned to have squeezed in an extra life as a second birth BK. But the Gyan is correct one what I said. 'Apparently' it was the only way a double foreigner would take to BK so quickly and readily ... I know quite a few BK encouraged/reckon that they were too. Perhaps it has gone out of fashion.

It is interesting. Here you have two coordinates many years and many thousands of miles apart, coming up with the same tosh. Suggests a bit of a sustained pattern to me. I do not know if I would trust the SS, I think we should just document the BKs and the BK centers that propagate this stuff. I can point some fingers (two big ones), at some of the other whacky stuff 'Dr' Nirmala has encouraged.

Realistically, if some BK is ditching his family responsibilities on the basis of his building a vessel as the Advance Party ... then I'd say his Ark has sprung a leak already. Now, all we need is for a different SS to turn up and explain to him that it isnt all true and the poor guy will be serious confused.

So who did tell him all this Di?

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Post by di » 19 May 2007

I have continued this discussion over in the thread" Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance". I hope you don't mind, but I do not want to get off topic for Jan. Thanks.

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Re: Brahmin Religion.

Post by abrahma kumar » 22 May 2007

proy wrote: Yes. I remember something in the Murlis referring to the "Brahmin Religion" also that all religions will be destroyed, including the "Brahmin Religion". If you don't know, Newcomers, the BKs refer to themselves as "Brahmins". Nothing to do with Hinduism or the caste system of course. Oh, no, no ,no, they will never admit that to you.:wink: Yes. That one is Thursday mornings too, I did not get around to mentioning the sweet water communion devotion ceremony.
Hi, apologies to come back to this Brahmin Religion point that was referred to earlier on in this topic but if anyone is mindful to check the Sakar Murli of the 5th January 2007 they will observe the following:
There will first be the end and then the beginning. In the middle, there are many religions. In the Golden Age there was just one religion. This is the cycle of the drama and it has four main religions. The leg of one religion is lost. Tell us who the One is who establishes the deity religion. The Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul, carries out establishment through Brahma. In fact you too are the children of Brahma, the Father of the People. You are also the children of Shiva. Because of being the children of of Brahma you are brothers and sisters. You know that you now belong to him. The Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul, first creates the Brahmin religion. The Brahmin religion is the top-knot. All others have come later, numberwise. In the end, there will definitely be your revelation. Achcha.
If the above translation is correct and my retyping of the segment from the Murli is also without error then it is plain as day that what the BK's practice is a Religion.

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Post by jannisder » 31 May 2007

As far as i can see it, it is indeed a religion, there was never a doubt in my mind.
Although they see they do not practice any devotion,....having pictures all over the place of whats his name is definitely devotion to me.

Any way, what is going one with this "Yugul couple" to be,...if you are still interested.
To tell you the truth, i do not know.
As the roller coaster ride keeps on going it seems that we are getting more close.
After many discussions about BK life, rules, and regulations we end up like we have more understanding for what is going on in ore life's.

There must be a difference in BK behavior from person to person.
This man is a BK but fully in the world also.
He lives by Shrimat and is a honest believer in God, Baba ore whoever God is.
A honest man and down to earth.
He don't care if he ever gets kicked out because he is not following the rules, he shall never stop seeing me because it is in the rules, ore eat my cooked food, or sit on the same table or have long conversations.
Never will he put aside his hobby's, and he does not like his teacher (a sister) To cold, to detached, to full of herself and to selfish. He follows his own path.
We have a bond that could last a lifetime. Of course i had my doubts knowing what Di and Katie were experiencing , i told him all about it and we even had fights over that.
Like..."are you using me, are you here to do service but don't really give a *******? Am i just a Shudra a lokik that needs to be saved? If so What are you doing here! And get out!!
Are you leaving me later on because you get a karmateet stage or whatever....everything passed the scene.
He opened up to me more and more.
His life was not easy and his Raja Yoga keeps him steady. That is true, he needs a balance in his life to keep him from going all out of control.
For as i know him now that is so true. Something i could never do, to keep him in control that is.
For that his meditation is OK.
BKWSU is something else but he shall find out and be strong enough to follow his path on his own.
I shall be there for him.
For now, after all doubts we are the best friends anyone can ever imagine.
Ill fight the BKWSU, and he knows i will.
He wants to be a BK for as long as it last, and that is OK by me, just don't get me involved.
We study the Murli together and discus all points.
I tease him about the frustrated virgins of BKWSU and he is OK with that.
Many times he cannot hear his alarm clock and forgets all about Amrit Vela. We are together every day and are so at ease.
My best friend is with me now.

BTW, but don't tell anyone....We shared a hotel room together.
The power of (my) thoughts. Now that really works. :lol:

Thanks to all of you for opening my eyes and to start talking about this. To be critical to the whole situation to protect myself and to be alert.
He really is something different where all BK's that are going "crazy" can learn something from.
I hope one day he will enter this forum.
This will be my last post.
i shall be here just about all the time because you all became my good dear friends that really helped me from the start and never got tired of me. Its unbelievable how much i learned and how much i have grown. Sending me the Murli was and is a wonderful help, please keep sending it to me it is a great Godly service you do.. He still wonders were i get it from. Telling him that i have close BK friends makes him wonder.....and curious. He almost wants to get in contact with you all. I hope it will be soon because he needs you all.
I shall never be an BK angle but i am close to one.
I get in or pull him out?
Maybe a bit of both...still all lines are open for deprogram. Only true love can win this thing. I have all the time in the world....
Love you all.

Jan.

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