What's pulling me away

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abrahma kumar
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Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Jan 2007

Om Shanti and hello all.

Finally I have overcome the small admin issues that I had since registering myself on this site last May and this is my first post - but what a difference 9 months makes! For you seasoned campaigners here kindly excuse this first ramble however as time goes on I hope that we can communicate in more pointed manner.

At the time of my first 'accidental' visit to this site i confess to having being offended (forgive me) by some of the posts that I read. I wondered at the negative experiences that some contained because my experiences were altogether different.

I was introduced to the BKs some 12 years ago and sometime after having done the 7-day course I became a regular morning student studying the Murli. I enjoy Baba's Gyan and 'BK life' has been good to me - challenging of course but very mentally stimulating. But now as I write this post I confess to feeling as if I am on the way out of Bk-dom so to speak! The why of it we may share as time goes by however for the time being I just want to participate with others in this forum.

Do you guys use words like Om Shanti here?

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Welcome back!

Post by surya » 04 Jan 2007

Om Shanti Abrahma Kumar!

hope you stay around here for a while ...

Om Shanti

Surya

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Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:At the time of my first 'accidental' visit to this site I confess to having being offended (forgive me) by some of the posts that I read. I wondered at the negative experiences that some contained because my experiences were altogether different ... Do you guys use words like Om Shanti here?
Its not a ramble, it is very important way of sorting things out in your mind. And me, as he that is wot said to be the forum rancor[sic], I have no problem with Om Shanti. So if I don't react no one else will, most will take it positively. It existed before BK and will exist after.

We all change and I dare say that we will meet in the middle ground.

I can speak of positive elements or why individuals chose BK life in case of their alternative. I even defend cults in general as necessary for individuals and society in general. Folks need somewhere to step out and rest, a ready made mask identity to put on whilst they rearrange the furniture on the inside. Many have very good reasons to do so and someone has to run such groups. In comparison to many the BKs are heads above them.

Personally speaking, its just that I think some things are getting out of hand and need to be highlighted, some folks' experiences are downright unacceptable and I realised how much I was not being told. I think for me the whole Murli re-write and business aspects were my turning points. I'd be interested to hear what it is that is pulling you away.

A few of us were pioneer ex-s and had to cut a path on our own. It was not always easy.

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Post by mr green » 04 Jan 2007

Welcome, welcome, Om Shanti don't bother me none ... it's true meaning is nice enough and originates from sanskrit I believe ... waits to be corrected :lol:

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Post by tinydot » 05 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:I was introduced to the BKs some 12 years ago and sometime after having done the 7-day course I became a regular morning student studying the Murli. I enjoy Baba's Gyan and 'BK life' has been good to me - challenging of course but very mentally stimulating.
Abrahma Kumar,

just out of curiosity, have you considered yourself to be a real BK (meaning accepting Baba and Drama)? It would be easier I think for those who got involved in Gyan to be out of BK-dom if they have not fully accepted the teachings. And it took me three years to be "out" from BK-dom and believe me, it's not that easy for me.

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Post by joel » 05 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote: For you seasoned campaigners here kindly excuse this first ramble however as time goes on I hope that we can communicate in more pointed manner.
What??? I thought it was the seasoned posters who tended to ramble.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Jan 2007

Thank you Joel. I hope that i can contribute meaningfully to this forum.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Jan 2007

Thank you Mr. Green / tinydot / Joel. I have suddenly found myself engaged in some critical thinking about some of the BK philosophy. As for the real BK question, well that one gets to the heart of the matter. I suppose that I could fashion myself as the 900001st BK. Apologies to any pukka BKs or ex-BKs that happen across this post but if i will get to the Golden Age then I will go via a nice long meeting with Dharamraj - which I knew before my Bk life anyway - but now I have the proof of where that residual memory came from.

When I said that i consider myself on the way out of BK-dom it was just that. I have found it hard to shake a few critical observations about the whole basis of the BKWSU that have crossd my mind recently - to the extent that I think that it would be wrong of me to give the 7-day course to any soul in my present state.

What do I love about BK life? Meditation, Murli's (with special regard for the Avyakts) and sharing with others. That wonderful way that the Murli has of slicing the intellect wide open -I love that. And that i will miss so i guess that I will always keep the Avyaky Murli books with me

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Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Jan 2007

Hi Ex-I thanks for your feedback. What's pulling me away? Am not exactly sure and I know that this is dangerous because without properly identifying the reasons I will run the risk of regret and all sorts. So maybe my coming here is part of the process of gaining some clarity. As I intimated earlier there is the frustration at being unable to experience a shift of some rather deep rooted sanskaras - so i can not discount that. However that did not stop me from experiencing immense benefit from my connection with Baba and the BK organisation etc etc (or was it my imagination?) but i suppose that any pukka BK will tell me that it was bound to catch up with me in the end - even I accept that there is scope for that possibility.

But what I think crystallized this questioning in my intellect was something that struck me recently whilst catching a sequence in a reality type TV show in which there was a group of Westerners (seekers i suppose) gathered around this woman in India and they were hanging on her every word. Her assistant who was translating into English happened to relate the story of her 'arrival' at this 'special guru-status' and blow me if the translator did not relate a story similar to Dada Lekhraj's. As I sat there listening the thought came: Do you mean to tell me that this is "the way" of things in India. Do they all have these cataclysmic spiritual experiences (i need not state the details) from which a religion is one day founded". And if this be the case then how can the experiences of BB be verified and if they cannot be verified do we all really simply accept everything on faith. Well you can imagine how thinking such thoughts would give one a wake-up call!

I began to wonder whether we westerners ran the risk of getting ourselves "deeply embedded in things eastern" (excuse the phrase) without really understanding that there are some profound cultural differences which ignorance of could result in a great big personal mess. imagine if i woke up one morning and had the thought: What the world needs now is a brand new 'religion' so ... So Ex -I there you have part of it. of course there are a few more bits and pieces but the crux of it is that - and GOD forgive me if i utter the most unforgivable blasphemy in these words - but how do we KNOW that God comes to us soul's in the way that we learn as per BKWSU. And if it is NOT a thing of "knowing" then it strikes me as being a little risky. Do you understand my question Ex-I?

But still one is left with this immense 'recognition' of the Murli and all the experiences that arise from it. What to make of that? I am not expert in mediumship or channelling or whatever process by which the Murli gets 'relayed' to us on earth. But yet still I accept unquestioningly!

Please i do not want to upset any pukka BKs that come this way neither have I any angst with the PBK's or Anti-party or whomsoever else there is out there but to me these questions have become rather important.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Jan 2007

I am posting again because i feel I am opening up. Apologies. .. Carrying on from my previous post: Before I came to BKWSU I went to this other place which offered Raja Yoga but I am sure that it did not involve Murli's or white clothing or bhorg or anything like that, however as drama would have it I just spent the best part of an hour there - could not have been what I was looking for - and left. Some years after that i found myself at the BKWSU where the real Raja Yoga is taught. The rest is history so to speak.

I do confess that all of the aspects of Soul Consciousness taught by the BKWSU feel 'real/elevated/'righteous'. Aspects from which there seems to be the potential to unhook ourselves from a lot of negativity but why do we keep it to ouselves so to speak? Why hasn't anyone written a book for the public in which the words of God are shared openly.

But prior to meeting the BKWSU I did know of reference to the Raja Yoga of Patanjali fame however as we are all told this BKWSU Raja Yoga has nothing to do with that (a grain a salt in a sack full of flower hic). So quite recently I started to wonder at the differences between the BKWSU Raja Yoga and the aforementioned Raja Yoga of Patanjali fame. In otherwords, I was re-examining my journey into Raja Yoga. What are the precise differences? And if I had access to the discourse of the Ancient Raja Yoga of Patanjali fame what would i discover?

Another one of my questions is this: Would it be possible for a soul to have deeply intense and profound exposure to the Raja Yoga of Patanjali fame from which certain feelings of Enlightenment arose? And, if in addition to that one had access to myriad ancient texts, could it be possible to study them to such an extent that feelings of being the self-styled ... Can one 'design a religion!'? And if a soul had that part in the drama what would be the purpose! Forgive me guys but this is where i am at.

Destruction: Truth be known I am not a soul to get hung up on all of that Destruction talk - maybe that's why I am here now (poor me) - deep inside myself I do not see Destruction as something to worry about because it is part of the 'automatic machinery' - If God says it will happen then sure as hell it will, so let me not bother about the date but rather take care of my stage. I remember sitting on the bus on my first trip to Madhuban and hearing BK's talking about Destruction, wondering how close it was blahh blah and I thought to myself: What is the point!

Sorry if i have not answered your question directly but ...

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Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Jan 2007

tinydot wrote:just out of curiosity, have you considered yourself to be a real BK (meaning accepting Baba and Drama)? It would be easier I think for those who got involved in Gyan to be out of BK-dom if they have not fully accepted the teachings. And it took me three years to be "out" from BK-dom and believe me, it's not that easy for me.
Maybe that is my problem tinydot. I need to really belong rather than 'play act' at being a BK. But truth is i do not intend to decieve anyone I amjust doing the best I can.

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Post by joel » 06 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:Thank you Mr. Green / tinydot / Joel. I have suddenly found myself engaged in some critical thinking about some of the BK philosophy.
For BKs: it's okay to be critical if at the end you finally come agree with Baba/Dadi/Jagdish, etc.

For ex-BKs: we have our own rosary for which this may qualify you. (Shall we call ourselves "the rosary of those who failed to obliterate themselves for God" ??)
As for the real BK question, well that one gets to the heart of the matter.
You did not mention this real question explicitly. Something like whether you accept Baba, or self as soul, or cycle, or Murli, or Dadis, etc??

Real questions to me were about accepting my sexuality, and why after so many years, my sins seemed totally fire-resistant? Why did my personality still seem so pinched, small, shy, delicate? Where was my sense of fun and play?

You can read my story extensively at http://xbkinfo.infogami.com/personal.

Another real question: will joyless prudes be happier at their moment of death than fun-loving undisciplined goofs? What about fun-loving, sometimes disciplined goofs? Why should happiness from God be okay, and other happiness evil? What about the happiness of throwing a ball? Of jumping on a trampoline?

I think I'll have to come on record here as believing that in general, happiness is healthy and good, laughter is the best medicine and that sex is often good medicine too. It is a strangely negative vision to view everyone as corrupt and degraded, as BKs tend to.

Another question: is the openness and frankness we find on this forum, or at 12-step meetings -- is that somehow lacking in tact and divinity compared to BKs who are songbirds of knowledge and speak only of Gyan and Baba?
I suppose that I could fashion myself as the 900001st BK. Apologies to any pukka BKs or ex-BKs that happen across this post but if I will get to the Golden Age then I will go via a nice long meeting with Dharamraj - which I knew before my BK life anyway - but now I have the proof of where that residual memory came from.
Not so sure about the punishment thing. I think the agonizing about Dharamraj is more of a Western BK thing. Indian BKs are more relaxed about Murli statements like "you will shed tears of blood." In Japan, I remember one sister who would read a line like that and burst out laughing.

Now I believe and understand from child development that pleasure is a part of who we are. Anything bad that is happened to us, or mistakes we made, only gets worse by criticizing, or blaming, or telling ourselves that our lives are meaningless, worthless, etc. To tell ourselves we will be punished is in a way, perpetuating the pain and shame of it. Many ex-BKs have needed the help of a therapist to get out of this kind of vicious emotional circle.
When I said that I consider myself on the way out of BK-dom it was just that. I have found it hard to shake a few critical observations about the whole basis of the BKWSU that have crossd my mind recently - to the extent that I think that it would be wrong of me to give the 7-day course to any soul in my present state.
Funny thing to wake up and feel oneself on the outside, as we walked around Madhuban late nights, talking our truths to each other while others in Om Shanti Bhavan basked in the glow of Avyakt BapDada's presence.
What do I love about BK life? Meditation, Murli's (with special regard for the Avyakts) and sharing with others. That wonderful way that the Murli has of slicing the intellect wide open -I love that. And that I will miss so I guess that I will always keep the Avyaky Murli books with me
Most of the Avyakt Murli start with Baba seeing his army, or lovers (gopis), or jewels etc., really appreciating them, then noting that they are not equally strong/blissful/sparkling and then some analysis of the reasons behind this numberwiseness. What we can do while there is still time left.

What kinds of things does he say that "slice open your intellect"? Most of what I found in the Murli as wisdom at one time became less relevant, or completely irrelevant to my life later. I am no Einstein, but nor has leaving study apparently caused any massive deadening of intellect or brain cells. I wish I'd kept more of my notebooks and Murlis, tho, more as reference materials for current scholarly and autobiographical writings.

Thanks for reading this rambling post, and note that I use bold sparingly. If full sentences are emboldened, you can probably thank my ghost editor, our tirelessly sentence swimming sysop.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 07 Jan 2007

The "punishment thing" I will not attribute to my exposure to the BKWSU. It may come from my prior Christian (Anglican) orientation - not devout at all but enough to have been to sunday school and read The Bible blah blah. Dharamraj holds no real terrors for me - perhaps I remain in blissful ignorance of the truth of it all in spite of having been exposed to Godly Knowledge.

Before BKWSU when I thought of 'judgement' it was always against a very faint consciousness which intimated to me that whatever I was facing at that moment (of judgement) it could not be denied that I had known God! it is as if that single undeniable fact sustained me through the purgatory.

I am sharing 'off the cuff' and using images that i hope have some universal echoes so excuse me. Thus, for me Dharamraj puri is symbolic of that final reckoning of the soul's karmic accounts. The removal of that 'rust' which neither God, nor the soul's own efforts, could shift. And so since the 16 celestial degrees completely pure and non-violent embodiment of the soul in the Golden Age was what came next - then what use fear. I see it as useless because if the soul is originally, and eternally pure then anything that is to result in that status being an experienced reality is surely not to be feared but to be understood. This lead me to focus during meditation one of the maxim's attributed to BK Raja Yoga i.e. Through connection with Baba in Loving remembrance the soul can BURN its sins. Perhps this was my avoidance mechanism but within it there is contained a regard for the supremacy of truth, righteousness, law and supreme love. ultimately I do believe that every soul is destined to embrace it's own 'reality', it's own karmas. In the context of current affairs it could be fashioned as: I, the soul's final Jihad. The Jihad of self.

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recognition

Post by proy » 07 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:But still one is left with this immense 'recognition' .
I also had this sense of recognition of BK life in general and it drew me into the BKs along with my experiences in meditation. Like ex-l, I think there are far worse things than the BKs and I do not regret my time with them. Think on this - they call themselves a University. The Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University. Well, I graduated and now I have moved on. No-one stays in a university for their whole life, do they? Maybe you are about to get your degree and go out of the "University" and into the big wide world where we think and act according to our own music.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 08 Jan 2007

Hi proxy. Thanks for the feedback.

Since posting here I have observed some very creative posts and I wondered if there any souls who are either engaged in creative projects that BK students would recognise as Gyan inspired but which at the same time 'talk' to the world we live in today in a manner that every soul can connect with.

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