BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

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fluffy bunny
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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Sep 2008

When you write "target", I must point out there is a big difference between some PBK (including old ladies) handing out leaflets on a public street and a BK dragging them away, taking them off in a car and beating them with lathis.

That is done in the name of the BKWSU.

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by mbbhat » 01 Sep 2008

Dear ex-l soul,

It is not just public street. PBKs come to the places where BKWSU arranges big functions and give leaflets just to BKs when they come outside the function ground. The most important thing is, even if a normal person (agyani) passes nearby, they will not give leaflet to him (I do not know, now whether they have started to give). But they will give just to BKs. I did not say beating is correct. I said that there is a cause. BKs are numberwise.

Even I was chased by PBKs for around 100meters. Since I had the information about PBKs, I recognized them and did not fear. Otherwise, I would have got upset. What do you call who chase somebody in public even if he does not wish to hear from them? If one says this to his lokik relatives, what they would like to do? Don't they wish to beat them? So, if such incidences have had occured to BKs who are unaware of PBKs and weak minded [innocent but faith in BK philosophy, I do not get exact word] and they had narrated these things to Bk family, some BKs might had thought to beat PBKs. Even BKs are purusharthis.

But you see faults just on BK side. This is partiality. Do you know all the incidences BKs have faced by PBKs and worldly people? This is the first step to comment. Otherwise, you have to be slow. Of course, PBKs will not beat BKs, because they are salesmen and BKs are their only customers! Now, PBKs demand letter of faith in legal bond paper. Have you questioned such issues with the same interest?

I do not wish to go to off topic. But you can reply and then if anything remains, they may come in related threads in future.

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by bansy » 01 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:1) It is since there is divine, it has to be taken care of, so that it does not get into wrong hands. 2) We are not simply his instruments. If that is the case, why should God teach us? I have no problem or issue from anybody.
mbbhat,

A conflict of interests it seems.

If you don't want people to have Murlis then just say so direct. Are you in the position to judge whether they go into the wrong hands or not? So, you read the Murlis and then are you saying that because you have them, then the Murlis are thus safe and in the right hands (i.e in yours)? Because you know what to do with them, whilst perceiving another soul won't know what to do with them. And yet you say you have no problem or issue with anybody.

You have much faith and trust in your brotherly and sisterly souls as well as the rest of humanity.

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:Even I was chased by PBKs for around 100meters ... what do you call who chase somebody in public even if he does not wish to hear from them?
Let us not mislead others. Define "chase" here.

You mean, a PBK walked up to you and tried to talk to you or give you a leaflet. You walked past them. They walked after you for some time trying to gain your attention?

There is a big difference between that BK security wing members arriving in cars to drag off PBKs, take them out of town and beat them with lathis. Given that similar happened in numerous states of India, that can only mean a centralized policy. Forget your chit-chat analogy about lokik family.
  • The BKWSU hold events in public places. The PBKs are members of the public.
    The BKWSU infiltrate others public events, cemeteries, homes of widows with the intention to do the same, promote their religion. Why cannot the PBKs do it?
For us in the West, and elsewhere, that is all part of democracy and human rights; freedom of information etc. When, for example, a Jehovah's Witness comes to our door to speak Bible, we are not allow to beat them up however much we might wish to. Now, should Western BKs not be disgusted that the BKWSU is involving itself in violence against and slander of others with its 'Om Shanti Warriors'? Is it not somewhat hypocritical?

I mean, is beating up a PBK just because they want to talk PBK not the same as beating up a Jew just because he is Jewish? It is still a worldly crime.

OK, please list what crimes the PBKs have committed. Clarify for us which were crimes committed by individuals and which were instructed by the AIVV leadership.

I do not know of any. So educate we who do not know (... just start a new topic to do so).

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by arjun » 02 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:It is not just public street. PBKs come to the places where BKWSU arranges big functions and give leaflets just to BKs when they come outside the function ground. The most important thing is, even if a normal person (agyani) passes nearby, they will not give leaflet to him (I do not know, now whether they have started to give). But they will give just to BKs. I did not say beating is correct. I said that there is a cause. BKs are numberwise.
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. The issue related to distribution of pamphlets by PBKs to the BKs and the violence used by BKs against PBKs has been discussed in detail in some other threads in the past on this forum. It is based only on those discussions that ex-l has given replies to you so far. Since you will not try to look into those threads, I would like to repeat the facts for your kind information.

First of all, PBKs tried to give Godly message in the form of pamphlets to the BKs, when they organized mega programmes in the past, where thousands of BKs and general public gather. I don't think PBKs try to do this in small BK programmes organized throughout the year by different BK centers. And ever since BKs stopped organizing mega-programmes and ever since BKs started tearing pamphlets and using violence against PBKs, the PBKs have stopped distributing pamphlets to the BKs.

In my own city, in the last eight years, the BKs have organized only two megaprogrammes where handful of PBKs went to distribute pamphlets (once with police protection). Based on the experiences in the first two megaprogrammes, the PBKs decided not to distribute any pamphlet at the third one (which was a ten days mega-fair organized about two years ago) but pasted posters near the venue, as well as some other corners of the city to give Godly message and to avoid being physically harmed by BKs.

As regards giving pamphlets to the general public, I would like to tell you that some pamphlets prepared by the PBKs are meant only for the BKs (i.e. the general public may not understand it because of the mention of Murli points etc.) and hence cannot be given to the general public. But many such pamphlets were also prepared which could be given to the general public as well. And such pamphlets were given to them. BKs snatched bundles of pamphlets from PBK mothers and tore them into pieces. The general public read these pamphlets seriously.

I have been to some such mega-programmes and have witnessed directly how BKs refuse to touch the pamphlets, even if offered with love; or how some 'appointed' BKs snatch pamphlets and how some lathi-wielding BKs chased away, manhandled PBKs or even beat them. Some PBKs had to be hospitalized. I have myself been at the receiving end on a couple of occasions. In most of such mega-programmes, while the number of BKs was in thousands, the PBKs (mostly mothers) were just handful.

As regards the chasing of BKs by PBKs is concerned, it is absolutely wrong. They might have at the most followed the BKs for a little distance to avoid being detected by stick wielding BKs (from the security wing), but in no case might any PBK have forced any BK to accept a pamphlet. It has been told by ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit) to PBKs, that while serving BKs/general public, they should try to give the Godly message at the most three times.

If the concerned person does not show any interest even after being given a message three times the PBKs should stop persuading them. And they are stricly directed not to retaliate in any form even if they are abused or beaten by BKs. At the most the PBKs can lodge a police complaint in case of physical violence being used against them.

If any PBK requests you to accept a pamphlet of Godly message, you call it chasing but what about the thousands of VIPs whom the BKs don't just chase but also lure by giving them gifts, sweets and hospitality? I remember an incident where a case of old PBK mothers being physically driven out from a BK center reached a Police Officer. He called both the parties to his office to make investigations. The BK teacher tried to please the Officer with a box of sweets in front of everyone. He threw the box on the spot angrily asking her not to try bribing him.

On Godly Service,
Arjun

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by mbbhat » 02 Sep 2008

Dear Bansy Soul,

I have no complaint for anybody since nothing is obstacle in my purusharthah. In fact, I agreed to give at least some of the Murlis to the forum. What I am saying is, fault is there from both sides. That is why just 108 souls pass. When you run an organization, a lot of things have to be considered. Most important thing is, so far no clear directions are issued by Avyakt BapDada about issuing Murlis. So, all are in confusion. Hence I feel Bk administration cannot be accused to that level. If anybody feels that he is RajYogi (King), he will not demand with body-conscious (beggar).

Dear Arjun and ex-l souls,

I am not saying that the PBKs chased me to catch me. Even after I turned away from them, they followed me requesting me a lot to listen. At present I respect their feeling of requesting, because they wanted to give their Gyan to me. But it was a great surprise and disturbance to me at that time.

Probably their intentions were like BKs trying to do VIP seva with extra interest. But the scene was like a shame in front of others. But for an ordinary Bk, for the first time, it would be really upsetting. Both myself as well the others behaved in a childish manner at that time.

I am happy to hear the incidence of the sister with the police officer so that BKs would learn lesson from those. One who wishes to become complete will have no complaints.

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by bansy » 02 Sep 2008

If anybody feels that he is RajYogi (King), he will not demand with body-conscious (beggar).
You've put your foot in the mouth again. How do BKs and how do/did you get your Murlis in the first place ? And do you now get Murlis ?

It is said that no-one is perfect, and hence it means that although we all put effort into soul consciousness, we are all still body-conscious. How does one "beg" for a Murli ? Surely it is Godly children who wish to study the Murli, should that be prevented because they now considered as beggars ? Such vision is very undivine.

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by arjun » 02 Sep 2008

Thieves, Shudras, Traitors, and now terrorists ... what a garland of praises you have for the PBKs and the members of this forum who are trying to make the Murlis available to everyone.
Add to that garland the new flower : Beggars :D.

Dear mbbhat Bhai, is it not the beggars that become prince according to ShivBaba? ;)

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:Probably their intentions were like BKs trying to do VIP seva with extra interest.
Thank you for becoming more "down to earth" and joining us in the reality of the situation. Keep it coming.

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by mbbhat » 03 Sep 2008

arjun wrote:Thieves, Shudras, Traitors, and now terrorists ... what a garland of praises you have for the PBKs and the members of this forum who are trying to make the Murlis available to everyone.
Dear Arjun soul,

1) I do not put these garlands to PBKs. I mean some of the BKs consider BKs like that. I consider anybody as an actor. If you are putting these garlands to me, it is OK to me.
2) Dear Arjun bhaiji, here many small issues are made big. (You also have done it. Please check your posts when Bansy had asked Why Baba's milan is kept at night. You were not impartial. I do not want to waste time on these. It is upto you). Hence I made it a litle big. This helped me to receive a reply from you and got some news. But I am happy to know your reactions.
3) I do not have any limited feelings about BKs. When drama and Baba did not try to save 340 (just 60 of the 400 survived in beggary part) in the beginning of Yagya, why should I try to (actually how can I) save BKs? I feel those who are Raja(independent= uninfluenced ) alone can survive and hence there is no saviour to any Bk except Baba. Any limited feelings is an attachment and weakness.
4) BKs believe beggar to prince. But PBKs believe directly to Narayan, without childhood.

Dear Bansy soul,

Without asking anybody, I got the Murlis. In some centres when they do not wish to (or cannot) keep the stock of old Murlis. So, drama, Baba and Brahmin family gave me those Murlis. I can get even more Murlis if I just ask in many centres*. But I just smile about myself when such thought comes. I cannot disclose more than this, because I may be misinterpreted by BKs who read my posts. In fact, even now, I am under test.

* But there is also a risk of some suspecting me.

Thank You and All the best

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by arjun » 03 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:I do not put these garlands to PBKs.
I hope you really mean what you say. But your repeated use of such words on this forum does give an impression that you have the same belief.
mbbhat wrote:Most important thing is, so far no clear directions are issued by Avyakt BapDada about issuing Murlis. So, all are in confusion. Hence I feel BK administration cannot be accused to that level.
Nearly four decades of Avyakt BapDada's part (1969-2008) have passed and no BK found it appropriate to ask BapDada to issue clear directions on such an important issue as the supply of Murlis to BKs. If they could not or deliberately did not put this question to BapDada in past four decades then will they do it in future?

Baba has already given directions for free supply of Murlis to all BKs. If the BK administration interprets it differently and stops supplies of Murlis to BKs (who want it), then how can you blame BapDada for this confusion or misinterpretation of Shrimat? If you don't ask him how can he reply?

In contrast, PBKs have put thousands of questions to ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit) which have been recorded in nearly 600 discussion VCDs available to everyone who wants them besides nearly 1000 VCDs of Murli clarifications (most of which have been uploaded on their website). And according to you BKs call them traitors, theives and what not. Is this justice?

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by mbbhat » 03 Sep 2008

arjun wrote:1) But your repeated use of such words on this forum does give an impression that you have the same belief.
2) If they could not or deliberately did not put this question to BapDada in past four decades then will they do it in future? 3) Baba has already given directions for free supply of Murlis to all BKs. 4) If the BK administration interprets it differently and stops supplies of Murlis to BKs (who want it), then how can you blame BapDada for this confusion or misinterpretation of Shrimat? 5) If you don't ask him how can he reply? 6) In contrast, PBKs have put thousands of questions to ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit) which have been recorded in nearly 600 discussion VCD* available to everyone who wants them besides nearly 1000 VCD* of Murli clarifications (most of which have been uploaded on their website). 7) And according to you BKs call them traitors, theives and what not. Is this justice?
1) That is OK. Now it is cleared.
2) I cannot say about this now.
3) If possible please quote Murli points.
4) Has BapDada blamed even Bk administration for this?
5) Why cannot he reply? Does not he has love? Does not he has authority?or perhaps does HE feel every Bk gets more points than he deserves?
6) There are thousands of Murli points which say do exhibition, put badge, drop phamplets from Aeroplanes, - Gita ka bhagavan point, patitpavan is not river Ganga. shree2 108 jagadguru is not human gurus, it is God, etc, etc. Why PBKs do not do service in these matters?
7) PBKs disrespect Brahma Baba and misinterpret Murli points (which I had discussed in the forum and will come with some more later). When PBKs do not do what is mentioned in 6), is it not even more difficult to believe them? So this is natural.

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by arjun » 03 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:3)If possible please quote Murli points.
They are spread over many threads on this forum, but you can find some in this thread: The Murlis: Ownership, access to and re-writing of
5) Why cannot he reply?
Did you or anyone from BKWSU ever ask him in the last four decades?
6) There are thousands of Murli points which say do exhibition, put badge, drop phamplets from Aeroplanes, - Gita ka bhagavan point, patitpavan is not river ganga. shree2 108 jagadguru is not human gurus, it is God, etc, etc. Why PBKs do not do service in these matters?
That is what we are trying to do through this forum (not in a limited sense but in an unlimited sense).
7) PBKs disrespect Brahma Baba and misinterpret Murli points (which I had discussed in the forum and will come with some more later).
This is your personal view. I have already clarified to you on this issue in the past in other threads. I do not wish to write again.

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:PBKs disrespect Brahma Baba and misinterpret Murli points.
This cult-like "defamation of the guru" thing BKs do is pure, poisoned Bhakti.

It is a far greater "defamation" of anyone to falsify the reality of them. A good question to ask is why does, just like the senior sisters we read about recently that accept other humans touching their feet whilst smiling, Lekhraj Kirpalani goes along with his worship in his allegedly perfectly enlightened state?

Its all so low level.

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Re: BK mbbhat on access to Murlis

Post by mbbhat » 06 Sep 2008

arjun wrote:That is what we are trying to do through this forum (not in a limited sense but in an unlimited sense).
.
Dear Arjun soul,
Do you think by your this unlimted sense, people of villages who do not have access to internet will get Godly message and Murlis?

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