Hello everybody

ermine
BK supporter
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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Hello everybody

Post by ermine » 04 Apr 2008

Hello everybody,

nice to meet all of you. I sincerely apologise for my insufficient English.

This forum is very interesting for me, because I have been attending plenty of different groups, sects and traditions. Eventually i realize that there are some problem everywhere. In some organization there is less negative influence but in some, quite a lot (in the monastery also). Everything depends on personality and practice. But only when i started attending BKWSU, my sister told to me that i became completely different person, like monk in monastery, but on other hand, my career was going up, my concentration in work and job increased but something broke inside me, maybe age, may by it is, maybe hatha Yoga (the hatha Yoga saved my life), maybe Zen Buddhism. I do know, has anybody had something similar?

I was very addicted to BK but at the same time, i attended a few different group, for someone i was saint man, for others totally monk-like. I have lost jobs but found others more better. I had a huge number of problems, even psychical attacks, but I had solved them quickly. When i realize that i became indifferent to normal think, i can say aggressive in mind, i started thinking - something was wrong with me but i do not want to blame others, all of them human beings, we did it together. Unfortunately i still recognize that non-vegetarian lifestyle is not appropriate for me.

Despite not being a not regular BK follower at the moment, I would like to express my entire support BKWSU. Because of this particular spiritual discovery has brought into my life more positive than negative experience. My life became quite balanced and spiritually comprehensive. Of course, there are plenty unnecessary things and uncertainness. When I read an outstanding Italian psychologist, who dealt with clients from different spiritual backgrounds, i realized that you can be spiritually active and your spiritual experience can be more beneficial, rather than distractive, if you find yourself, know yourself and can apply precisely any certain religion dogma to your personality. Roberto Assagioli. He had clinics for mentally instable patients (after spiritual failure).

My sister and relatives went to Madhuban to try and understand me. They were very concerned to lose me forever, but nobody said to me a single words about bad or wrongs. Moreover our family relationship became understandable and very positive, the life is turned back again but not completely only a few things have changed because i cannot stop thinking about spirituality, religion and meditation.

Finally, i am free to fly but some time i want to give up everything and go to spiritual life forever. What do you think is it, illness or some type of a psychological instability?

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arjun
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Re: Hello everybody

Post by arjun » 05 Apr 2008

Dear ermine,
Om Shanti and welcome to the forum.
ermine wrote:Finally, i am free to fly but some time i want to give up everything and go to spiritual life forever. What do you think is it, illness or some type of a psychological instability?
Do you wish to surrender yourself to the BK Yagya forever? Or do you wish to choose some other spiritual path?

If you are a male BK, the Murlis say that you can dedicate yourself as a surrendered BK only if you have no liability, like the responsibility of the family, like dependant parents, children or younger siblings, etc.

If you are a female BK, a virgin, you can dedicate yourself whenever you wish if you are not a minor. Similarly a widow BK can surrender anytime if she has no family responsibility. But a married woman can surrender only with the written permission of her husband or without it if he is harrassing/torturing her.

If you are not sure if your decision is right/wrong or if you feel that you will not be able to adjust forever you can try living in center for a few days/weeks/months before taking the plunge.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Hello everybody

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Apr 2008

arjun wrote:But a married woman can surrender only with the written permission of her husband or without it if he is harassing/torturing her.
... and if he is not harassing you, some BKs will give you good ideas on how to wind up the husband up in order to get the result you want to leave, and take the house and half the money. :?

Joking apart, and that is not so much of a joke, welcome ermine. I see you say "saintly man" or monk and so I guess we are talking "brother".

Thanks for the interesting link to 'Roberto Assagioli', as I mentioned elsewhere, psychiatry IS waking up to the special needs of individuals having a "spiritualist" breakthrough and we have often discussed the difficulties BKs have both seeking and receiving help given its inbuilt superiority complex. Picked almost at random, there is an interesting academic paper on the matter, here.

Being a BK is both highly demanding and addictive/obsessive. I am guessing you are speaking about the "intoxication phase" or "Honeymoon Period" that we pretty much all went through. I do not think that we still completely understand what that was about or why it happens. The BKs have their interpretation.

Ultimately though, the destination has to be becoming one's self not a BK and I would encourage to see the two as separate. The BKWSU has its own demands on followers and seeks, even in unconsciously, to make them fit their demand/vision ... "in my opinion".

You will receive a wide spectrum of responses and opinions on this forum. Most or all of us have had similar experiences to you. We are still questioning. I am ex-l ... my big thing is the historical revisionism within the BKWSU, the fact they have re-written their history and philosophy so surely and kept it such a secret from their followers. If there is one thing that damaged my faith it is God acting through this, it is this. The other would be all the self-promotion rather than genuine service to others.

We are also creating something new here and having an effect on the BKWSU. Join us and change it.

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: Hello everybody

Post by ermine » 05 Apr 2008

Dear friends,

Many thanks for you comments I very appreciate it. It very interesting forum with precise intention to help somebody or it is able to reveal you hesitations.

We called each other as brothers or sister in the BK. When i attended a Hatha Yoga group, they thought that i was a monk because nobody believed that it is possible to be a manager at work, quite wealthy but no sex and totally vegetarian due to very strict rules. But i do not feel some kind of abuse or uncomfortable. Apparently, I liked it and a 2-3 weeks in India is very beneficial for me. I know a plenty BKs followers who were not so mentally affected and who found balance between job, relatives and BKs. Many have got nice relationship with most of them, very active in sport, Hatha Yoga, art other beneficial activities. But they are predominantly single and very happy about it.

I have thought about it and think that they found that they want due to it is applicable embodiment regarding to Law of Karma, if you wish. May be it is the clear realization that religion requires if you want to life comprehensively: non-violence, vegetarian, honest life - it is very easy if you in the BK but not easy when your within others ... only Zen and Jainism is more comprehensive, logical and proportional. You have to work yourself to much at the beginning.

May I assume that in this website you are sometimes quite aggressive against BKs. We are all different if we blame BK, we use the same rule and became non-flexible. I agree that some things needed be done but in different centers different rules, different teachers, different culture and, of course, participants. I have acquired many beneficial things then negative ones.

Others philosophical and religious movements are very interesting to explore also - by books or by meeting them. May I suggest that, maybe, some religion principles are not suitable for everbody and it is certain a question of your personality - Nietzsche, Berdyaev, Abraham Maslow and other existentialists or psychologists could or would explain a lot of those differentiations of your personality. Psychology and philosophy are very interesting but make you less active with comparison with Zen, we are talking too much.

Particularly, when i go to meditation in BK, i use to do the breathing exercises to calm down during meditation, sometime i make difference, some time I practice emptiness from Zen, if i want to be happy all day meet some one in Parandham. If i have a problem at work, I used to apply to many different things. But if we use it, it means that it exists in the material world but on other hand, by deeply religious presumption - it is illusion. But i am not serious about presumptions, just it helps, nothing more. But it is now after more than 10 years in BK and more then 15 years in Yoga + Buddhism together.

Many thank for all - followers or non-followers.

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Hello everybody

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Apr 2008

ermine wrote:May I assume that in this website you are sometimes quite aggressive against BKs.
It changes with the weather ... I think the bigger picture is more sophisticated that just that. If I speak for myself, recently I have been deeply disgusted by some of the things the leadership of the BKWSU and individuals representing the Brahma-kumaris have done and I think that until those are resolved, on balance, I will maintain a negative point of view of them. Personally, I think society needs to quarantine them until they sort themselves out.

I do not think we ought feed their monster more "soul" food.

As you say, there are many different experiences to be had within the BKWSU at different times and in different centers. You seem to have managed your life far better than many and kept your feet on the ground. Others might have been encouraged to stick their heads in the clouds, crashed hard, and when they woke up, discovered they have nothing. Still, the forum represents a wealth of experience from all sides. Can I ask, how deeply involved did you get as a BK?

Again, I think there is a widespread of individuals keeping up various Maryadas or not, including some the full principles. Personally, I was vegetarian, stopped drinking etc and so on from before Gyan, like you encouraged by Hatha Yoga. I did not find those hard, nor objectional, to keep up and saw no reason to start them again after leaving the BKWSU. We do not all become 'horned sinners' as soon as we leave. In fact, in some cases I am more strict.

On balance, I would say that they are an easier way to live than paying the price of beefsteak and relationships ... at least when you are young. I am not sure that will still be the same when we get old. Nor that it is fair to demand of all people in all cultures. But you see, the Brahma-kumaris always taught that we were all going to die in Destruction before we got old ... and look at them now. Paying the price for not looking after their lifetime friend - their body.

Stick around, we are trying to make things change for the better.

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: Hello everybody

Post by ermine » 05 Apr 2008

Dear ex-I, or maybe not ex-I -- everything is relative.

I cannot say that I was/am not totally following the BK's rules. It is a very relative and controversial issue - who is precisely or not following spiritual rules or promises. For me, it is very exciting to do it - a couple years to be very strong in any other directions, but the basement of my life is to find way which can encourage me to be more balanced. I prefer BK "indoctrinations" as a basement.

Yoga and other centers are only for specific purposes. It is obvious that if you do not do physical exercises, your body will be ruined, which affect your soul, malnutrition will destroy your energy balance. So finally your cannot understand the Murli properly. YOU ARE not anybody else. All the words that we are saying are nothing, just part of Ego. We want to be the best servant in the BK; at work, in other activities it is EGO. There are no differences in how you express yourself in material word - different dress or rituals. You express yourself by words, by body or by something else. If you bring or not bring other people into suffering, it is your (my) outcome. Why it is not violent way?

Look at some of the old BKs in Madubhan, they are holy. It does matter who is on the tribune [guddhi? - editor note] or near, who is close to somebody or far away - it doesn't matter - in the material world, there is the completely similar hierarchy but in a different dimension and realm only. What can you say about some of them in Madhuban? Why have they became so balanced? In Roberto Assangolli books, there is explanation of "spiritual failure or growth" - but it is only words of your ego which leads you to moral or immoral satisfaction of your nerves, or maybe leads to physical instability, frustration or happiness.

Ex-BKs, and my normal sister, always told to me that BK is a brainwashing machine, but they are surprised that why they are so happy to be in Madubhan and why who i was and who i am now - are completely different (in work, in relationship). But meditation is really helpful and a very beneficial effective weapon which could elevate one to the sky or to SPIRITUAL EGOISM. As some monastery guru told me about monks in Zen, they are all rubbish. More than 90% cannot do anything helpful in the world outside and, here also, they are spiritually ill by spiritual ego but someday some of them will be enlightened. And then he told to me spiritual logic will kill you brain and then your personality, words are nothing, just empty noisy sounds - only experience, balance and negative or positive outcome that you have done, but nobody can evaluate it. I am rubbish also when i speak out it - think about it.

In this web site too many different things which make sense.

Sincerely yours, see you soon

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Hello everybody

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Apr 2008

Everything is relative except the objective.

By following BK, I just meant do you get up at 4 am, go to class everyday and all that stuff. It is no crime to do so. We get on fine with honest, straightforward BKs here. It did not seem that you are an "orthodox" BK but that you had managed to successfully create you own lifestyle.

That is a good thing. You are very lucky to. You are obviously very together as a person and competent in ordinary life. My concerns are really where individuals are not and are then encouraged into vulnerable and dependent existences within the BKWSU, e.g. younger people. I am not convinced that the Brahma-kumaris offer a "total lifetime package" for all individuals and that the lines between "pure" and "saved", and "impure" and "condemned for eternity" are made out to be too distinct. You appear to be recommending a much more broader, "wholistic" lifestyle and for individuals to take more responsibility for themselves.

I am concerned to that as a competent and successful person, you might not empathise with more challenged individuals who, for example, should really be encouraged to educate themselves, to apply themselves to a career, to sort of other more basic social or psychological issues BEFORE rushing headlong into the BKWSU. The BKs, in their rush to convert new followers, do not give that sort of advice.

ermine
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Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: Hello everybody

Post by ermine » 06 Apr 2008

Dear ex-lady the most spiritually beautiful lady in the world.

The objective is also relative regarding your own interpretation of this objective but it is not wrong or no right exist.

Applicability of BK idea is the question of meditation and life style. I started to discovery psychology and sociology, then I began being BK. The point is that BK is giving you an opportunity to fulfill it - to make your world inside richer and bigger. I cannot say that somebody in BKs want to control you or it is bad to go somewhere, it is your choice how to live and behave in accordance with some precise conceptions. You cannot blame someone for it or for indoctrination, only you who make first step and further. There is no world out or in, it is a whole and sufficient structure. Your thoughts could/would be changed depending on whether you trying to apply the university to your personality or the university already exists inside you.

I alway was "orthodox" but modern orthodox because the world is moving quickly. Can you show me now some strong orthodox in any religion? Just joking. If we compare them with orthodoxies in the past centuries, they are green children. The difference is in the past time, the culture and environment were completely different. You can put in your spiritual dairy what you want, there is not any specific rules. So can you apply what we are saying to BK.

Your are free go but what is the next step? It is the point where everything relative regarding to your self sufficiency (object) or regarding university (object also), the question is how to unite it in your brain but in your brain (object) only. Eventually you are what your are or your emotional interpretation.

All you thoughts in this website are around BK, it means your are still remembering and following.

I look forward to a reply from you.

Yours sincerely
See you soon in Madhuban

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Hello everybody

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Apr 2008

Neither remembering nor forgetting. I have become a boatman carrying souls across.

But in the opposite direction ... back to the solid foundations of dry land.

If you have studied psychology and sociology, then you are aware - to some degree - of the influences that individuals are subject to. I disagree that individuals have such clear cut responsibility and even ability to decide.

I think the Brahma-kumaris' "initiation" is deliberately subtle and obscured. They cook new souls for Baba slowly in a way that the souls don't really know what is going on until it is too late. Then they are conditioned more and more until it is hard to leave. And even after they leave, they still bear what are scars, not sanskars ... because so much has been proven to be false.

I still have not worked out or discovered how something so false and consistently deceptive, can be so potent over individuals and so I am still work away at it attempting to find out the greater truth of it all.

ermine
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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by ermine » 06 Apr 2008

Darling

Sorry, I like you style your are quite reasonable now but not completely.

"My deepest regret was getting involved with the nonsense that was the BKs back then and wasting my 20s on them."

What does it mean? You had been wasting your time? It is seems to me like distraction already happened - you created this distraction and continue to live within it laughing healthily. Very interesting BK interpretation. You have been trying to give your own interpretation against BK using basically BK ideas which were totally converted by you. Outcome is very obvious, you have not reached good results in BK because your are now out, I suppose.

You are out, so it seems to me that your are free to go and to do what you want.

You've used nonsense - why are you talking about it now? To continue this nonsense.

What about present situation is it nonsense or healthy laughing? You are gorgeous.

If somebody told me that your were strong BK, you will see my healthy laugh!!!! :D :D :D

Sorry about it, it is FORUM not BK storage.

Million blessings, wishes and flowers to your brilliancy.

Sincerely yours,

See you soon in Madhuban

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: Hello everybody

Post by ermine » 06 Apr 2008

for ex lady personally,

You are absolutely fabulous.

There is no foundation or dry land. It is your new idea, new illusion, everything inside you. We cannot blame others.

I would like to introduce one part of this world how big it is.

1) Amazingly friendly, everything is precise from posture of meditation to technique of meditation and life style for post-BK is treasure - no thoughts, no meaning of words, just deep, emptiness and total non-crushable balance. Everything disappears forever then you go out after retreat with new, refreshed empty brain for new ideas and thoughts. Clear spiritual non-distractive technique. Unique and very specific meditation. No speeches, no speculations. just your self. And your childhood and your 20s with your again. Zen; Yokoji Zen Mountain Center

This one is friendly worldly materialism to help children to study and traveling across all world + EU degree; Det Nødvendige Seminarium (The Necessary Teacher Training College).

Sorry again that I gave you it but your are my Spiritual Sister. I really concerned that you are so aggressive against BK.

See you in Madhuban soon or maybe in Japan, Thailand, Burma, India or Africa.

Sincerely yours

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Hello everybody

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Apr 2008

Tvid

Tvind also known as; Humana - Development Aid From People To People - One World Volunteer Institute - The Necessary Teacher Teaching College - DNS - The Traveling Pholk High School and a whole load of other names? Nice recommendation. Who are they now ... and have they found Mogens Amdi Petersen yet? (It goes on and one like those links,folks) ...
Enigma of The Leader
Ten years ago the Guardian first raised doubts about the Danish organisation behind a chain of used-clothes charity shops. Now Mogens Amdi Petersen, the mysterious, Svengali-like figure behind the organisation is to stand trial in a £15m fraud case. Michael Durham reports
2007 - The fraud trial against Teachers Group leader resumes in Denmark

7th November 2007: The fraud trial aganst the Teachers Group has resumed in Denmark. But when the court reconvened on November 7th in Aarhus to hear new charges of embezzlement and tax fraud, only one Teachers Group leader was present - Poul Joergensen. All the rest have gone on the run.

Joergensen was known as Amdi Petersens 'right hand man' over many years, and when police announced charges late last year he was swiftly caught in Denmark. But the five other defendants, Petersen himself, his mistress Kirsten Larsen, Marlene Gunst, Kirsten Fuglsbjerg [aka 'Christie Pipps'], and Sten Byrner are believed to be hiding out in the Teachers Group's Humana headquarters building in Zimbabwe, under the protection of Robert Mugabe, or at the new headquarters in Mexico.

All six were accused of illegally transferring millions of Danish kroner from a Teachers Group tax-free fund, the Humanitarian Foundation, through fake companies and environmental front organisations back to the Teachers Group itself, where it could have been used for business and property transactions.
OK, ermine. Here I am. What do you want to say?

Personally, I do not buy into New Agey, half-baked philosophy. I deal in reality. If someone messes with or abuses others, one has a moral and ethical responsibility to step in to do something about it.

In fact, I will go further to say outright that sort of stuff (not blaming others) it is largely bull, spouted by individuals that don't know what they are talking about and mostly misused either for profit (to make money selling products) or to mess with people's minds. Especially when related to children.

So, let's keep on thing focused. Please tell us exactly, what do you actually know about the BKWSU? How long were you in and how deeply?

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: Hello everybody

Post by ermine » 06 Apr 2008

Thank you very much for you information but you did not say anything about Zen centre.
ex-l wrote:So, let's keep on thing focused. Please tell us exactly, what do you actually know about the BKWSU? How long were you in and how deeply?
one has a moral and ethical responsibility to step in to do something about it.
You behave like a confident person and like a leader; TAKING MORAL RESPONSIBILITY, KEEP FOCUSED.
Just one hierarchy under other.
what do you actually know about the BKWSU?
Just intelligent service.
How long were you in and how deeply?
Very morally responsible and focused. Every single single world has nothing to do with ... ?

It is all my answers. I think your moral responsibility is satisfied and less focused.
Relax my spiritual friend, traffic signal soon.

Best wishes

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Hello everybody

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Apr 2008

So what does that mean? Have you ever lived in a BK community and followed the principles for a prolonged time?

It is no big deal. I am just trying at assess whether we have any common ground at all and what you are doing here.

What do you want from us or the forum? (You don't see very BK to me).

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: Hello everybody

Post by ermine » 06 Apr 2008

Dear or dears

I am not a robot or a zombie as you wish to represent everyone in BKs within BKWSU (in accordance with to your ex-BK elevated cut slang).

See you soon

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