New and ...

tunn
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New and ...

Post by tunn » 31 Aug 2007

I have a friend who was a BK for a few years. I am interested to know a few things ...

I am informed by my friend that he learned to see a light emanating from teacher's foreheads etc and that he can see this light due to his "special powers" ... i don't buy this, obviously, and view it as a lie or self-delusion. I could be wrong ... but I am not.

I've read that students will sit in a dark room for a long while, facing his teacher, who has some kind of sphere above/behind his head, lit by a bulb, emitting a glow. The centre has a small hole which emits a bright white light against the glow of the 'orb'. This apparently represents Shiv Baba. The student stares intensly into the teachers eyes or forehead, while devotional hymns are played in the background. The student is told to imagine himself as pure energy, bodiless, as power, as light, bathed in the love of the supreme. Apparently and unsurprisingly, many students experience visual hallucinations involving lights. He tells me he has a power to see these things ... utter BS.

So, it's pretty straight forward, no? What i wonder is why this ex-BK decides to try to dupe people with obvious lies? It goes further ... the whole set up is lie upon lie.

The member i know spent a good few years practicing and left friends and family etc behind him like pieces of used up trash. So, one would think that following all this spiritual tuition and godliness, something would've stuck; some kind of honesty, integrity, whatever. Because i've known this chap for many, many years, i know about pieces of his life. There is petty lie piled upon lie, simple untruths concerning private matters, not BK matters ... absolutely ridiculous claims & lies concerning trivial BS,

So why, after he left the BKs, did he suddenly forget how to be honest & seemingly increased the levels of silly petty lies? Or perhaps this was always the case and the BKs taught him nothing but pretentiousness, and how to try to impress people with lies.

My friends (?), my point is this; what good has it done? The man cannot even speak truthfully to his own kind.

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abrahma kumar
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welcome to the forum new&

Post by abrahma kumar » 31 Aug 2007

Hi tunn, welcome to the forum. From your profile I see that you registered in May 2007. From the information in your first post, we see that you have been in a position to form some personal opinions about BKWSU - as an observer and as a result of your friend sharing some of his experiences with you.

Towards the end of your post you share that not only have you been able to identify your friend but that as an ex-BK he appears to have forgotten how to be honest in areas of his personal and spiritual life. tunn, these are very powerful claims to lay against someone in public. May I ask whether have you had, or sought to instigate, meetings with your 'friend' so as to discuss his situation (from his viewpoint) together with your opinions about his conduct?

regards
Abrahma Kumar.

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Post by paulkershaw » 31 Aug 2007

Hi Tunn

Thanks for your posting and welcome to the forum. Would I be correct in saying that in summation of your posting that you have two issues that you'd like answers or comments on:
  • A) Your friends behaviour whilst with the BKWSO and then his post BKWSO processes?
    B) The validity and comments of some of the postings made on this forum by various members.
If this is so, I'd like to comment generally that as we probably don't know your friend, we would have to say that every person is unique and individual and everyone has their own baggage. But I would say that often-times I have seen these things emerge even more once someone has become a regular BK - I feel to say that many, many postings on this forum have highlighted these problems and many people have shared their individual experiences. Often all remarkably similar in nature. So we cannot discount these events as nonsense.

Whether or not they are spiritual or Godly is up to each one of us to ascertain for ourselves and then work with that belief system for themselves. What's sauce for the gander may not suit the goose, eh?

If you do feel that some or all of the postings on this forum are nonsense, then this is a generalisation on your part. You do state that you have never been part of the BKWSU and we're not sure if you have even done their Introductory Meditation course (I am not saying you should! ... ) but if so then you are speaking as an 'outsider' going off your feelings and your perceptions and cannot possibly understand what goes on inside one's head and heart when one joins the BKWSO as a regular participant.

Best to ask your friend these questions directly methinks, if he will answer them. If he won't - well then it could be due to his defensive mechanism he's had to put in place to pretect himself from 'unknowledgable souls' such as you.

Although we do not all agree with each others postings on this forum, there are many common threads and experiences which one cannot cast aside as nonsensical, but the majority of us do try to see things in perspective and in the reality of the moment.

It would perhaps be good for us all to remember that this forum was born out of a common need by thousands of people around the world, and is serving as a fantastic healing mechanism for many.

The intitial feeling of your posting is one of anger and upset, and if this is so (I hope its not though), we don't mind sharing with you anything you need to try and help you. What you've said has been said before in many ways, especially in the "Newcomer' and the "ex-BK" Forum threads by ex and current forum members who have been deeply hurt by their BK partners/friends themselves and similar to your shared experience are rightfully disenchanted with the BKWSO teachings and processes.

Sp once again, a warm welcome to this forum and we hope to share with you in deeper depth as we go along.

In Light xxx p

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Re: New and ...

Post by fluffy bunny » 31 Aug 2007

tunn wrote:I am informed by my friend that he learned to see a light emanating from teacher's foreheads etc and that he can see this light due to his "special powers" ... I don't buy this, obviously, and view it as a lie or self-delusion. I could be wrong ... but I am not.
Hi tunn.

BKs will and do saying all sorts of stuff to encourage people in. Especially when they are in their "Honeymoon Phase" and quite literally high, tripping on the buzz they are getting off on. Certainly to make claims about "special powers" is not a very mature thing to do, even by BK standards.

There is a difference between "visualizing" (imagining) ... which is what they teach to begin with ... and "seeing". Certainly one is told to "imagine" a point of light and it not uncommon to have visions of sorts; points of light, clouds of white light, immersion in red light. Especially, in the early stages. These seem to drop off as time goes on and are thought of as encouragements given by the God of the BKs.

Everything you have noted about the external mechanics of the practice is pretty accurate. Personally, I do think there is something happening on a psychic level. Something that the individual BK, especially young or at a low level, is not in control of but is having done or "given" to them by the either Holy Spooks of BK Raja Yoga or by the atmosphere (collective unconscious). To the BKs, of course, they see these are "being given by Baba".

Just how much of this is spookery (divine or not) and how much is hypnotically induced through external and auto-suggestion ... well, that is what this forum is here to ponder. Probably a little bit of everthing is the right answer.

Personally, I have never seen light emanating from anyone's head whereas others have and I trust them to be true, so many cases cannot be easily dismissed and it does happen outside of the BKs too. It is a fairly universal experience within the BKWSU and I have seen other visual effects though, as did "students" I was teaching at the time. So I would guess that what he is say is at least half true. He may not be communicating matters clearly enough to you. Is it a big deal and would I recommend the BKWSU on the basis of it? No. As you point out personal morals and ethics are far more important.

I repeat, no "pukka" (proper/correct) BK would claim to have "powers" ... "be given gifts/touching/visions" etc, yes, may be. Pukka BKs tend to pass responsibility for everything back to their God. So you can quite correctly whack him for "having ego", as the BKs say. Perhaps that is why he left?

Is he a BK now or an ex-BK? Does he still follow the principles? It is not clear where the second part of your post is going or if you just coming on with some axe to grind. If your friend is an ex-BK, you can hardly blame the organization for what he says or does. Yes, we are generally unhappy at the nature of some of the deceptions that are going on and often document double standards. Strictly speaking, by leaving the BKWSU he is now "lower than the lowest of the low" according to them, so if he tries it on you, you can remind him!!! (I would suggest not doing so as he might be in an unstable or fragile state ...)

If you have any more specific questions, then please ask them. If you want us to help you address any of the difficulties you have experienced in your relationship or hurts that you have suffered because of the actions of a BK, then please let us help too.

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Post by tunn » 31 Aug 2007

Thank you very much for your replies ... I realize my post was pointless. I have no axe to grind, i really don't know enough about the organisation to make a considered opinion. I don't think the posts on the forum are nonsense either.

I think i sometimes become a little frustrated. I am an "unknowledgeable soul", but i do know that i love my friend very dearly ... yet i don't know who he is anymore, and neither does he. It makes me very sad and perhaps i came across as angry or something.

I don't blame the BKs for anything really, as i don't have the facts, & never will. My friend doesn't claim to have "special powers", that's my wording, but he does believe he learned the technique. I don't know why it should bother me really.

My friend was a member for only three or four years & he is no longer a BK, but he does still spend time with a few BK members and i simply wish he would leave ALL of it behind. I guess that's easier said.

I will ask him the questions, but i don't want to upset him. I think i'll let him work it out as he sees fit ... whatever he feels he needs to do or say, it's OK i guess. Sometimes my head spins with it all, i don't understand it, obviously. But why should I?! I should leave it be. I love my friend more than he knows & i worry. I apologize if i was rather angry sounding.

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tunnellling toward one's own Great Light.

Post by abrahma kumar » 31 Aug 2007

tunn wrote:Thank you very much for your replies ... I realize my post was pointless. I have no axe to grind, I really don't know enough about the organisation to make a considered opinion ... But why should I?! I should leave it be. I love my friend more than he knows & I worry. I apologize if I was rather angry sounding.
tunn, my friend, in 2 short posts you have demonstrated to me that there is no thing quite as remarkable as the human being itself.

Your post, upon which i build these meagre words in feedback, very clearly indicates why a place such as this is more than necessary. tunn, I might be wrong, but if you read your words again you might see that you are ready to embark on a journey. A pathway that is going to be lit-up by the energy of your own sparkling consciousness and not the dazzling, blindling glare of some other human's on-coming headlights.

tunn, have you ever travelled in a car at night and been dazzled by the full beam of a vehicle approaching from the opposite direction? As a driver myself, whenever that sort of thing happens to me, i involuntarily find myself scowling into 'my' rearview mirror and uttering mild - and sometimes not so mild!! - profanities at the receeding tail-lights of the 'offending' vehicle. Calling the driiver all sorts of a so-and-so! Till eventually i settle down and free myself from the influence of the so-called 'idiot' and his way of driving without due care and attention.

I return my focus to the mater in hand which is piloting my own vehicle - which no doubbt entails learning how to share the road with users of all sorts. tunn, this life is yours, and i for one would be only too pleased if you stick around - at your own convenience - and share with us as you pilot your life's journey from here onwards.

Around these parts i often manifest a tendency to reference a song or a lyric in my posts. And so in honour of the spirit of both of your posts - and the feedback you have had from the other forum posters thus far - I find myself remembering the title of an album performed by a saxophonist called Courney Pine. The album is called: Journey to the Urge Within. BK's may imagine that Courtney named his album as a memorial to the Conflunce Age, in which we souls are presented with the possibility to become soul conscious. Personally, I reject that claim and choose instead to believe that we all have the right to tunnell towards our own Great Light whenever we so choose; remembering of course that there are other road users too :oops:

Taken together, your posts indicate that you are a caring individual well worth the tag of friend. I hope that the light of your friend is able to pinpoint that invaluable quality of yours and so maybe you two can talk a little more sometime soon. He too must be a remarkable soul.

Thanks

abek

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Post by tunn » 31 Aug 2007

Thanks abek.

I am afraid I feel quite sick for some reason...why did i attack my friend? I don't know what to do. He's such a generous lovely man, but now i've picked up on these silly little negative points. Thinking over it now i wouldn't even say 'lies' is correct, i now realize he is not really happy with life currently & it was so stupid of me to fixate on nothing more than tiny discrepancies ... What was i thinking?

I posted in haste like an unthinking person. It's like i expect him to be perfect or something since joining BKs. He's human, i regret my pettiness so much, & i cannot really work out what prompted it.

Strangely, communicating this has made feel i understand a little more now. I have jumped to crazy conclusions & acted as judge & jury. I need to step back. I understand that i just don't understand. I feel very sad ... sorry again and thank you.

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A friend tunnellling toward his own Great Light.

Post by abrahma kumar » 31 Aug 2007

tunn, some might say that what you expressed was prompted by a deep desire to understand something that does not quite add up. An expression of a need to share a journey with your friend.

Let's see what feedback the other forum members get inspired to offer. In the meantime, i had a look around in my record collection and found this little tune that dates to a time when all the friends that i 'had' were real only in my imagination. Friends like Ben. I am sure you are for real. :oops:

regards
abek

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Post by fluffy bunny » 31 Aug 2007

Hmmn ... Ben was a pet rat, wasn't he?

Anyway, you are here now tunn, so let us help you answers those question you still have in your mind. We are not going to try and recruit you for the cult nor David Icke Lizard Army.

I think some of the "blame" does lie with the organization. It does scramble people and leaving them not know who they are. It does put in place teachers who should not have power over others and they do mess people up. It does eat its way through society, relationship by relationship, separating families and individuals and taking its pick. It does re-write the software in the mind ... and no one really knows if a complete manual exists.

All of the things you are talking about have some validity. You are picking up what the flipside of BK is all about. It is very hard for BKs when they come out of it to ever re-adjust back to "normality" and, especially, connect again with individuals. In its self-expressed superiority, it also used as a mask and defence, stopping ex-s going to find help from others. It is very confusing.

You talk about the meditation, someone has put up a video of the practise here

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Post by paulkershaw » 03 Sep 2007

Hey Tunn

Reading your posts I am pulled to comment (and I hope you don't feel that I am too forceful or interfering here ... its not meant to be ... ) but it does seem to me that you're really being hard on yourself. (apologies again if I am being too direct) but I am pulled to make the comment to you that "it's OK, the forum is also for you and we'll offer guidance where we can" .

In my own journey through life, I've realised that I cannot change anyone else at any time, no matter how hard I try and all I can change is either my responses to things/people or change my situation in order to make me feel more supported and happy.

From your posts, I can see that you do deem your friend to be a wonderful person, so maybe you can focus on that aspect for a while and understand that he's just searching for 'The Way' just like you, and most other people are doing. True Love is worthwhile you know but not often an easy path. Why not tell your friend about this digital meeting place and tell him what you posted and what response you received, it may peak his interest too so when he does look, you've got nothing to hide either? You're doing it all out of great care anyway and thats beautiful ...

Please do keep posting and sharing, it gives us, you and so many other 'searchers' an idea of whats out there, keeps us all up to date and maybe together we can make a difference for ourselves and them!

With warm wishes, love and hugz from a beautiful spring day in Johannesburg ...
xxxx

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Post by tunn » 05 Sep 2007

Thanks,

To be honest, I am too depressed to read or type much but your replies have made lots of sense & helped me realise some very important things. Unfortunately, me and my friend have had a fairly bad argument but i hope we can get through it ... he is great, & has understanding.

Please can you delete my member account details because i very much don't think i should be coming on again from respect? Thanks.

Peace to all.

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Post by bansy » 05 Sep 2007

Hi tunn

Sorry to hear you're leaving so soon. Maybe this time there was little that was done, but I think your account should stay open. You deserve your own self respect, it's yours. Also, later you may want to come on with other things if and when they develop.

So hope you can make up with the things around you, and take care for now.

Bansy.

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Post by jannisder » 09 Sep 2007

tunn wrote:TI'm afraid I feel quite sick for some reason ... why did I attack my friend? I don't know what to do. He's such a generous lovely man, but now I've picked up on these silly little negative points. Thinking over it now I wouldn't even say 'lies' is correct, I now realize he is not really happy with life currently & it was so stupid of me to fixate on nothing more than tiny discrepancies ... What was I thinking?
Dear Tunn,

You can not imagine how many attacks i gave my friend. How many arguments we had and still have sometimes. Some things just has to come out. It is OK to tell him what you feel and what your questions are if you have any, if he respect you like you do him, he shall not get mad.

My BK friend and i are still the best of friends. Thanks to this forum i learned to deal with his bk life, and me as a "lokik", ... still not really knowing what he is up to, dealing with me. :roll: ... but the picture is getting clearer every day. Stick around Tunn!!

Love Jannisder

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Hard to leave it ALL behind

Post by proy » 11 Sep 2007

tunn wrote:My friend was a member for only three or four years & he is no longer a BK, but he does still spend time with a few BK members and I simply wish he would leave ALL of it behind. I guess that's easier said.
That is the truth of it. Why it is so hard to leave behind is another question.

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The $64M ?: Why is it so very hard to leave it ALL behind.

Post by abrahma kumar » 11 Sep 2007

proy wrote:That is the truth of it. Why it is so hard to leave behind is another question.
... and perhaps it is THE question the answer to which can unlock many of us from 'patterns' of behaviour that leave others - and ourselves - vulnerable to mood swings, indecision, mistreatment and abandonment. Sometimes it also feels that being on this site is also beyond reasonable explanation.

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