The Truth

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avyakt7
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The Truth

Post by avyakt7 » 23 Sep 2010

What is the truth?

Do BKs have the truth?


Is this a “yes/no” answer?


I will just share something to consider.

The truth is paradoxical. The truth is relative. There is no absolute truth... but yet, God is the only truth.

So here is the main part of this article, the rest is just expansion. Do you believe in what I have said?

What about if Dadi was saying it? Or Mr. Somebody? Or Baba?


Is the truth related with who is saying it or its value is intrinsic, regardless of who says it?


The truth cannot be expressed in words for words are static, dry and lifeless. The truth is in being.

God is the truth because “He is,” not because “He says,” but of course, what He says must be consistent with what “He is” so we call that “truth.”


However, we know what someone says can be interpreted in different ways. Everyone has a numberwise understanding. Thus, religious groups and philosophical groups are based on someone who interprets, the “authority says” is deemed as “good.” In other words, if I do not understand something or even if I think that I understand something, I must follow what the authority says. Just to be safe.


In fact, everyone have different life experiences. No one is the same. We can learn and be “illuminated” when sharing takes place and that sharing cannot be judgmental to be sharing.

In other words I cannot tell someone :”You must do this and that to be elevated” because everyone has their own role, their own understanding, their own circumstances. Even manmat is predestined. I cannot pretend to change the way a Christian soul thinks, because for them the truth is different than “my truth”. The truth is not meant to change someone, it is meant to be there and “seen” by those who can see. Then when Baba mentions that the “truth does not need proof” makes complete sense.


Words do not change anyone but make someone react “for” or “against.”

Because Baba is the truth, when He says that we need to be “Bapsaman” He is referring obviously that we have to become the 'truth' as well. That means, unchanging, stable, with our original spiritual qualities, that means “being.” it is not only about speaking our truth, knowledge which in fact it is meant only for BKs' intellects.

When we are something, we can color someone, just like Baba Himself colors us.


What is the truth about renunciation?

Is renunciation a spiritual virtue? Has Baba exhibited some form of renunciation?

Renunciation as “stopping something” or “denying ourselves of something is not spiritual renunciation.

Spiritual renunciation is to renounce the consciousness of “I.” The Avyakt Murli today (4/11/10) gave an excellent class on this.

It started with this concept of “being” an embodiment, a personification. We are not there if we are still practicing things.

Then Baba expanded into the concept of becoming “simple and a sample.” Some souls took it as “wearing simple clothes, having a simple life, etc.” It is my understanding that simplicity, spiritual simplicity means being. We are simple when all the outers surrounding of us are gone. Those things are our ideas, our personality our mayas... Simplicity means to recognize those things which are known as ego and renounce it. Then, we become samples.

Baba expanded that idea when referring to being a “problem” to someone and our identification with the body. Renunciation of the body is again our identification with it which is entangled with the subtle ego. Once we do that, then we become servers. Baba also mentioned a small aspect of ego which is bossiness; however it is important to notice that bossiness is ego.

Our life is service. I am writing this for service, but it is not me. It is the role playing. I don't do anything. As I become closer to being “Bapsaman” according to my number, then my qualities become similar to Baba's... then Baba “works through me” more and more. That is the meaning of true renunciation. It is no longer “you” (ego) in the way of things.


The blessing in that Murli confirms this idea when it mentions that to be a world server means to have the sanskar of a master emerged and that is possible when we are ego less, then equal to the Father. That brings fullness. Thus, we become full by renouncing the ego.


It is interesting to notice that Baba takes different topics in the easiest possible way for us to get it, to understand it, however, underneath the simplicity lies the expansion of knowledge.

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Re: The Truth

Post by Sach_Khand » 24 Sep 2010

Dear Avyakt,
I read the article about chicken and egg (not word by word) and I came to know that it is you who has written this. So, if I am not wrong, you are Luis. I also read about your personal information given in one of the web pages (short answers given to some important questions of life). I am glad to see you as a member here, in this forum.

Also I am very happy that we are having a BK who writes in BK section of this forum. Untill now, there used to be very little activity in BK section. Possibly, we might see more activity in BK section and some more BKs writing in this section hereafter.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: The Truth

Post by Sach_Khand » 24 Sep 2010

avyakt7 wrote:What is the truth?
...
The blessing in that Murli confirms this idea when it mentions that to be a world server means to have the sanskar of a master emerged and that is possible when we are ego less, then equal to the Father. That brings fullness. Thus, we become full by renouncing the ego.
...
There is a Murli point which says that if (you) are soul conscious Father is undoubtedly alongwith (you). In Hindi, "Atmaahimani hai toh Baap saath hai he".

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: The Truth

Post by avyakt7 » 24 Sep 2010

Dear Sach_Khand,
:D
The chicken and the egg article is Baba's knowledge. The role does the work because it cannot be stopped.
Glad to see it there as number 1 out of 70 articles. Eventually, the truth shines over the shadows.. it is just a matter of time.

All the best.

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Re: The Truth

Post by john » 25 Sep 2010

If one is to believe in the 5000 year cycle, which is repeated exactly, then there is only one truth, one reality without deviation.
So all we can talk about is the perception of truth. In that sense God is the ultimate knower and living embodiment of truth.
Ours is a position of faith, faith that the truth we follow and try and understand will lead to ultimate peace, happiness and salvation.

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Re: The Truth

Post by avyakt7 » 25 Sep 2010

As you mentioned John, is all about "perceptions" of the Truth. God being the truth as you mentioned it, and us perceiving God according to our predestined roles, which changes every second and thus, we don't "remember" about our "true" potential of what we could become.
The cycle of time being a logical and reasonable fact (which could be easily explained using logic alone) perceived by many but not by all; is just all there is at the physical level. Unfortunately there is no way (yet) to prove the duration of it. Faith is for me to accept that it is 5000 years.

The "Drama" works in such a way that every soul obtains what it needs according to its capacity. Peace, happiness and "salvation" is what every soul wants.. and every soul experiences that according to their "perception" of reality... which is predestined.

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" This is the "reality". If a soul wasn't there to see and hear the sound of the tree falling, as far as that soul is concerned, there was never a tree, or even something falling and making noises, that is that soul "truth"....As souls come down numberwise at different times in the cycle, we can understand this philosophical riddle, which deals with perceptions of "reality" based solely on experience.

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Re: The Truth

Post by shivsena » 25 Sep 2010

john wrote: So all we can talk about is the perception of truth. In that sense God is the ultimate knower and living embodiment of truth.
God is truth and truth is God (Bhakti-marg saying: ''satya hi shiv hai aur shiv hi satya hai'') and absolute truth(yartharth roop of shiv) is not a perception.....how each soul perceives the ultimate truth is what makes the souls numberwise.....if truth(God) was so easy to understand, then the words ''numberwar purusharth anusaar'' would not have been repeated in Murlis hundreds of times.

shivsena.

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Re: The Truth

Post by avyakt7 » 25 Sep 2010

Shivsena,

For atheists, God is not the "truth". We cannot blame that on them for not changing their minds; we know that it is predestined that they will think in that way.
You perceive on the other hand ,that God is the truth and the truth is absolute and quote a saying from the path of Bhakti to demonstrate this.
You are right. That is your reality. Your perception of reality.
Going a bit deeper, "Knowing"is not an absolute. You may think that you know your mother; but you only have a perception which luckily changes in time.
The word "absolute" is too absolute ... yes, the Murli repeats the words "numberwise" and we still don't get it... because there is a number...

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Re: The Truth

Post by shivsena » 26 Sep 2010

avyakt7 wrote: You are right. That is your reality. Your perception of reality.
Dear avyakt7.

In all the 3 worlds of untruth, truth has to be only a perception, never a reality.....because when the real truth(self-realisation and god-realisation) dawns upon any soul, then that soul will become deaf-dumb and blind to the physical world (Murli point: "jeete jee marna" and "Vani se pare ho jaana")....so when anyone(whether bk-pbk or ex.) who verbally preaches or writes his views about truth, it just means that he is preaching his perception of truth.....and if any bk-pbk thinks otherwise, then he is just fooling first himself and then others.....this is what i believe.

shivsena.

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Re: The Truth

Post by avyakt7 » 26 Sep 2010

Great! We are in the same page Shivsena!
Yes, we can preach our perception of truth. Our understandings are different. Language is a barrier. That is why I value experiences rather than words. "My" experience of God, which it cannot be put into words, which cannot be preached.
However, it is good to share perspectives, because that sometimes gives us another insight which we did not consider before; that is why I value this forum.

All the best Shivsena.

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Re: The Truth

Post by shivsena » 26 Sep 2010

avyakt7 wrote: . However, it is good to share perspectives, because that sometimes gives us another insight which we did not consider before; that is why I value this forum.
All the best Shivsena.
Yes----very true.....exchanging views gives us a chance to know the thinking pattern of other soul brothers and may offer many insights which we might have overlooked.....this is the aim and object of such forums.

All the very best to you too.
shivsena.

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Re: The Truth

Post by Sach_Khand » 27 Sep 2010

shivsena wrote: In all the 3 worlds of untruth, truth has to be only a perception, never a reality.....because when the real truth(self-realisation and god-realisation) dawns upon any soul, then that soul will become deaf-dumb and blind to the physical world (Murli point: "jeete jee marna" and "Vani se pare ho jaana")...

shivsena.[/color]
So, why and how does Shiv give knowledge? If Mama Saraswati has Truth, how does she give knowledge? Is it all done by instigation (In Hindi, prerana)?
If that is so, then all the Bhakti marg scriptures too are false. All words of great saints too are false. There is nothing but falsehood always in this world of speech.

I accept that Truth cannot be said totally, but Truth can be made to experience. And words can be used as pointers to Truth. And an experienced person can use the pointers of words to direct someone to That Truth and thus make him/her experience The Truth.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: The Truth

Post by avyakt7 » 27 Sep 2010

Good point.
There is nothing but falsehood in the world of speech? Neither truth nor falsehood for a spiritual awake person. Dualism (truth vs falsehood ) is a trait of being caught up in the physical world. However, as Godly knowledge (God as understood by Brahma Kumars/Kumaris) is paradoxical, there is truth which He has explained through Brahma, which points the path to Brahmin souls. Although, the words uttered by Brahma are part of Brahma's sanskaras at one point in time, thus they may have been tinted with duality; which is completely accurate for the souls at that time (Bhakti conscious, not too educated souls but with great determination and fortitude) they wouldn't be able to understand the subtlety of duality, which even today many cannot and thus, are caught up in words. Thus, they take a scripture literally and whatever someone said "at face value"... these souls follow the "law" but not the "spirit of it". It is interesting to note that only Brahmins will take benefit of Shiva's teachings through Brahma. The rest of the world have their own "reality" (not experiencing the first 2500 years of the cycle and coming later in the cycle) marked by their own religion founder as depicted by the "inverted tree" picture.

According to the predestined Drama everyone will experience what they need to experience. Someone cannot make "me" experience anything, but perhaps trigger an experience which is in my role. I feel it is important to see that the roles of souls change and everyone will reach their "destination".

Awareness is what makes the greatest difference. There is no script nor scripture that explains how to become aware; however, a scripture may try to point out something which primarily deals with the experience of the writer/speaker and which many times we take as "face value" and call it the "path to the truth".

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Re: The Truth

Post by avyakt7 » 28 Sep 2010

I thought I would add something which I discovered which worked for me in reference to the "truth" of the Murli.
Once "straight knowledge" ( meaning world cycle, 3 worlds, re incarnation, principle of causality aka "karma", soul, predestination, eternal return, entropy, duality, reality and God) is understood, the Murli serves a different purpose. It is a source of inspiration and of practical advise. Thus, if someone re wrote it, "revised" it, mis-translated it or if someone understood it in Bhakti terminology only, it is meaningless for me, the understanding of the above will take me where the "significance" resides. There is a depth which can only be grasped in a numberwise fashion.

In my experience, souls with Indian background are quite comfortable using Bhakti stories and the "Father/mother" relationships to understand the Murli. That is their viewpoint. For a westerner like myself, that viewpoint is useless. Thus, Godly knowledge being universal; needs to be put into the perspective which is more adequate to a particular soul.
As far as Indian souls, I used to like the writings of Jagdish Bhai at the beginning of my BK life. I haven't seen anyone like him as far as someone who could put the knowledge from a more westernized/scientific/logical view point; although; his writings have Bhakti in it.

Therefore, one of my aims was to put the knowledge under this perspective (Bhakti-less, logical, reasonable coming from causality principles) so it makes more sense to a westerner. Logic and reason have its place when we are concerned about mental understanding; however, as we know if there are no feelings; if the heart hasn't been equally developed; there will not be a lasting experience of God... in our hearts.

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Re: The Truth

Post by howiemac » 31 Oct 2010

I guess a "path of knowledge" has to be concerned with truth. Whereas a path of devotion can focus on selfless love. I have never been clear on why knowledge should be seen as more elevated than devotion. For me, as avyakt7 said above, experience comes first, and the experience of Godly love transcends any knowledge IMHO. For me, the path is about union with the divine, and not about facts and figures. I guess this is what you mean by "God is the only truth".. ? Spirituality transcends language, and the higher realms of knowledge ("wisdom" is a better term for this) cannot be fully expressed in words - they have to be experienced. If there is such a thing as absolute truth, then it is beyond the comprehension of the rational mind. Ommmmm ;-)

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