Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

DEDICATED to BKs.
For those involved with the Brahma Kumaris, to discuss issues about the BKWSU in a free and open manner.
User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jun 2008

From here presented to the United Nations etc etc etc. The Brahma Kumaris ( ...who holds a general consultative status with the ... blah blah blah) are involved in the "training of employee for the production of pure milk"!?! Note the batch process of employees ... no wonder folks call the new BKWSU HQ "factory-like".

What is meant by "pure milk"? Is it like "kosher food"? Are the BKs going to ensure BK vibes going into the milk production. Has anyone seen sterillisation equipment at Shantibhavan? Are we talking about pure as in consciousness affecting the food?
BKWSU wrote:Workers of a well-known milk dairy (Amul Products) send batches of their employees (2500-3000 in number) yearly to the Brahma Kumaris HQ for training programmes in production of pure milk, health, de-addiction, leading productive and spiritual lives. As of 2005, 60,000 employees had undergone this training programme.
Personally, I am not sure that it is ethical for bosses to batch process employees into a religion? This really is on a par with the mass conversion the Mogul's carried out in India. The same article mentions "a conference held in Mehsana in 1996 was attended by 20,000 of village folk from Northern Gujarat (Heads of Villages, farmers etc)." Does anyone know what was that about please?

Thanks.
Ammul is the marketing brand of the Gujarat Cooperative Milk Marketing Federation Gujarat Cooperative Milk Marketing Federation (GCMMF) is India's largest food products marketing organisation. It is a state level apex body of milk cooperatives in Gujarat which aims to provide remunerative returns to the farmers and also serve the interest of consumers by providing quality products which are good value for money.

Image

jaycdp
Not sure
Posts: 95
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: canada

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by jaycdp » 12 Jun 2008

Amul is probably one of the largest in the world.

When I went to the Canadian brahmakumari institute, they were wondering how the East Indians are so rich. I told them they are rich in India itself. I am an Indian too but i am not that rich. That does not mean there aren't rich East indians but they did not believed me there are rich people in India. May be looking at me they must have judged indians. May be India has more poor people than any other country but believe me there are rich and filthy rich people are there in India too.

Life is always about image in the West. And in India too. May be the modern indians are the worst. Money is a visible positive reinforcer that makes you feel good physically. Money makes you feel secure too and money is a necessary good and evil. We need money. I like the brahmakumari concept. Renouncing money is not enough, one must be free from attachment.

Osho Rajanish used to say the same. Brahmakumaris have not done any evil yet. Even if they do any evil, it is not a big deal. Look what Islam did to the world. Look what Christianity did to the world. The Brahmakumaris can never be like Christianity or Islam.

Om Shanti

User avatar
paulkershaw
ex-BK
Posts: 684
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BKWSU
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am an ex-teacher and member of the BKWSU and my interest lies in assisting those who request support on any level I can.
Location: South Africa

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by paulkershaw » 12 Jun 2008

Amul Butters logo is definitely going to be changing then.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jun 2008

paulkershaw wrote:Amul Butters logo is definitely going to be changing then.
Either someone in India has obvious seen 'Last Tango in Paris' ... or it is complaint addressed by the good women of India towards their menfolk. Perhaps I am entirely wrong ... perhaps the holy cows of the Brahma Kumaris have something to teach others about milking every opportunity they can! ;)

Well, Jay, to an extent you are correct in the scale of comparsion ... and we are here to make sure they do not. Perhaps if the Holy Roman Empire had the internet, the corruption of early Christian values and the excesses of the Roman Church would never have happened. Perhaps the ambitions of the Brahma Kumaris are just less, or perhaps their empire building is just being done by stealth. All the same, lives, families and millions of dollars have and are being thrown away and wasted on Lekhraj Kirpalani mania,
only the next few years will prove whether they were right or wrong. Whether their path leads to Emperor Narayan and heaven in 2036 or it was all a wild goose chase.

bkti-pit
BK
Posts: 274
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by bkti-pit » 12 Jun 2008

ex-l wrote:What is meant by "pure milk"?
When I was in Madhuban in March I met with people of the Rural Wing. It seems to me to be a sincere effort to help the farmers and villagers improving the quality of their life. Of course they will be trying to sell some BK Gyan as well but they are really helping them with sanitation, clean drinking water, good farming practices, de-addiction programs, etc and giving a boost to the villagers self-pride.

The pure milk business is simply sanitation in milk processing plants.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jun 2008

Of course, the more practical work the better. For the BKs' own sakes, the less obvious stuffing Gyan down people's throats the better.

Far better to just do good, say nothing ...

User avatar
jannisder
Friends and family of
Posts: 454
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: europe

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by jannisder » 13 Jun 2008

Very hard to see where the effort is to be made.

A very good effort though is to point out people the nature of things, even milk ... but do not kill the cow and eat it.

I have some weird things about cows and their baby's needing the milk ... taking it away from the mother ... so she will still give the milk for us to consume ... Well, if you are a creative talker and know how to excuse the mother cow ... drinking milk is OK.

I love milk ... cannot live one day without it!!! I had about 95 cows and the milk was pure!!! Had even a 100,000.00 liter girl ... with all respect the best mother ever!!!

User avatar
alladin
Friends and family of
Posts: 718
Joined: 27 Feb 2007

chained and tortured, in fact

Post by alladin » 14 Jun 2008

I don't know if the topic of veganism has been discussed elsewhere on the Forum. I personally think, and witnessed, that milk production involves a great torture of both cows and calves; mothers kept all their lives in stables, fed artificially and filled with medicines and hormones etc, chained in most milk factories like machines. Their babies (yes, they are mammals like us) confined elsewhere, typically with other calves and at a distance from their mothers, fed with dried milk (!), calling each other screaming and crying like any mammal would. But let me not open a topic on cruelty on animals here. All I wanted to say is that in the given conditions, I don't see any purity in producing or consuming dairy products. BTW, I am not an orthodox vegan yet, aiming to become one. I do have some yogurt occasionally, always wondering if it's necessary to my health, and with the pictures of ill treated bovines in mind ...

Well, if I had cows or goat friends living freely and grazing in the fields, I might dare asking for some milk, in case they had some overproduction, and agreed, but that'd be very different! The rest is just kali yugi exploitation.

User avatar
jannisder
Friends and family of
Posts: 454
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: europe

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by jannisder » 20 Jun 2008

Absolutely right.

We had some 37 hectares for them to rum free!! Mothers and calves. From the day they were born, the calves stayed with mom ... and were happy to give me some milk. The most nasty things I saw made me let them run free.

From the moment a calf is born, it is taken away from the mother, put on a tide rope, they even strangle themselves because they fall and cannot stand up ... that quick (being a newborn). I will spare you the abuse of animals I saw. Glad I could make a change. The milk the mothers were happy to give me, without any abuse of the calf, is what I consider to be pure.

bkti-pit
BK
Posts: 274
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by bkti-pit » 21 Jun 2008

I had cows too. Not for making money, just for milk for the use of the family. Top quality milk, butter, yogurt ... more than a family can use really. We had 2 acres of pasture and were buying hay from local farmers for the winter.

The first one was an old cow. It's all I could afford. In order to give milk, a cow needs to have a baby. Our old cow had difficulty to give birth. She would get very weak and would not be able to stand up after the calf was born. Each time we had to call in the veterinary and he would give her a shot that would put her on her feet in a few hours. After the third year like that he told us that she would not survive another one. She was a mother to us, very gentle and affectionate. Even our 2 years old son was very safe all alone in the field with her. What a pain in my heart when she stopped giving milk after 2 years without a new born and having to send her to the slaughterhouse. Imagine sending your mom to be executed!

The same happened to the second one. At that point I couldn't take it anymore. You can be very loving and caring for your cow but one day she gets too old. I could not afford to feed her just for the fun of it. And what about the yearly calf? We would sell it at prime rate and it would pay for the hay for winter ... but hey! How do you like to send the little one for the butcher's knife? Again, I could not afford otherwise. Too heart breaking for me. I had no problem giving up milk ...

User avatar
chai bhai
BK
Posts: 69
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: reforming BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: i like that this forum gives people the chance to have conversation they may not be able to have elsewhere. we can meet people from different parts of the world, all who have a collective real wealth of experience in Raja Yoga. i support the ideal of an open forum where everyone has a voice and can speak freely.

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by chai bhai » 21 Jun 2008

Hello bkti-pit, really thank you so much for your post about milk. Can I ask you - because I am also concerned about the cows but do not have first hand experience like you do - is biodynamic milk 100% okay? That's what I drink in my chai. Either biodynamic or soy, but i really do not know the details. I thought, given your personal experience, you could inform me and maybe other people who like a peaceful diet that is kind to the earth.

Your Bhai, chai

bkti-pit
BK
Posts: 274
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by bkti-pit » 21 Jun 2008

Hi Chai Bhai and welcome to the Forum.

I have been reading your posts with interest.

I do not know the specifics of biodynamic agriculture but it certainly has to do with what is fed to the cows, how the cows and the milk are handled, etc, in order to get the maximum life sustaining force from the milk but it doesn't change the fact of life that in order to give milk cows, just like any mammal female, has to give birth to a baby. The usual practice around here is to have the cows have a calf once a year, probably because this is how one gets the maximum production of milk over the cows productive life.

My cows were having their babies in the spring and the first few months we were inundated with milk. When the calf got big enough it would drink everything and nothing would be left for us. It would even hurt the cow's teats. It is at that point that we would sell it for meat. You see, even the little girls could not be sold to become a future milking cow unless they are of the highest pedigree, expected to produce a lot of milk. The only cows I could afford were those that had the lowest production. That was good enough for us but there was no market for the young ones but meat eaters.

As I said, 2 years after their last calf our old cows stopped giving milk. Now, it is possible that under the best conditions a young cow could be milked for longer than that, I don't know. In our climate where the ground is covered with snow for 5 to 6 months every year and it can get down to 40 degrees below zero, a cow cannot survive just roaming around like in India.

I use soy milk too. Most of the soy milk sold around here is organic. There is also rice milk, almond milk, oat milk ...

User avatar
chai bhai
BK
Posts: 69
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: reforming BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: i like that this forum gives people the chance to have conversation they may not be able to have elsewhere. we can meet people from different parts of the world, all who have a collective real wealth of experience in Raja Yoga. i support the ideal of an open forum where everyone has a voice and can speak freely.

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by chai bhai » 21 Jun 2008

Thank you bkti-pit, I appreciate your reply.

I have been thinking about becoming vegan but have not researched this properly. I think I will try to find out about biodynamic. It might mean that it is completely natural (so they are not forced to be pregnant annually) but it doesn't seem so from what you have said. How disturbing, that even by drinking milk one is part of the cycle of suffering for animals. I will give it some thought and look into it.

Much appreciated, chai Bhai

bubbles123
ex-BK
Posts: 3
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: i am free from the cult...

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by bubbles123 » 21 Jun 2008

When meat is non-veg and should not be eaten ... how come milk is vegetarian ???

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Brahma Kumaris training in production of pure milk?

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Jun 2008

Biodymanic milk makes biodymanic meat.

bkti-pit spelt out the market forces involved perfectly and humanly. A large part of the whole Biodymanic thing is the 'me-factor'. A luxury product. The real world different is negligable. They don't use organic bolt guns, wait until a full moon or wave a wand of ivy over the calf as its throat is cut ...

Sorry to depress you but, you see, brahmkumaris.info might just make a better person of you!

I think the whole "milk" issue is one worthy of discussion in relationship to Gyan. For Indians, culturally, milk and butter have not just symbolic values to do with purity and motherhood but also to do with wealth. Laterly, attractiveness means fat and oily as those are synomymous with rich. And only the rich can afford cows or an excess of dairy products, ghee especially. Massive generalisation ahead ... the poor are stuck with rice and lentils and inverse to the West, skinny was unattaractive because it meant you had to work instead of sit around all day.

This is one of the reason why you see so many fat or obese Brahma Kumaris. Supressed emotions and desires apart, the glut of cheap (government and meat industry subsidized) dairy products in the West lures them into needless indulgence. bubbles raises a very just opinion ...

Not all milk is vegetarian ... or not all milk is sattvic. Indeed, it is arguable that no homogenised milk is sattvic as it has not life in it any more and has been considerably change from its initial alkaline state.

In my experience, the leadership of the Brahma Kumaris was not just hugely in denial about food/diary issues but positively anti-health consciousness. I understand that further to considerable lobbying they finally bowed over that one ... but it did not come easy.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests