Karma - is it all so bad? - moved

john morgan
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Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by john morgan » 19 Mar 2008

I have read a post on CultExit.org saying that Sarah does not exist and that she has been invented by a Moderator on this forum.

I wonder if anyone would like to comment as the implications of this are to my mind quite serious.

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alladin
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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by alladin » 19 Mar 2008

Hi, I read the same and also I heard that the administration of the Forum is one person. I thought it was a "Board of directors".

Could we get some info about it? Is the admin a "one man show", really??

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by proy » 19 Mar 2008

Hi Alladin,

There is a small group, of which I am one, who help with this forum.

As far as I know only one person has overall control, but as I run a forum myself I can see that might be the best way to do it.

It is all very well trying to share the responsibility, but it can get very confusing when people do things (admin type things) on your forum and you don't know about it.

I favour the benign dictatorship model of a forum myself for that reason. My own forum is run by myself alone, but I have trusted advisors who I listen to and take very seriously.

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by bansy » 19 Mar 2008

Hi

I have mentioned many times I have been a moderator but have hardly had to do anything except moderate my own posts. The reason why I do so is because whenever something goes amiss, the moderator is to be blamed.

This is not my forum/website, just I am happy to be part of it and such moderator duties were given at the start of the old-look .bkinfo when old XBKchat posts were migrated into the forum and needed editing. A number of folks are/were also given moderators duties, if you are concerned, maybe you should ask. Since those early forum days, other than the old sweetchill incident wayback, I have had little to much to do.

If members would agree, I would be happy to have my moderator duties removed, after all I don't spend much time nowadays anyway as I am busy with other personal stuffs. The only thing I am conerned with is getting Murlis (in my part of the world, this is not easy), but I am making my own inroads into this.
As far as I know only one person has overall control
I think this is true.

Whilst the concerns of alladin and john morgan are valid, I am and was not bothered about who was posting this or that, since anyway I feel there are probably more than one person having many made-up member names on this forum. This occurs not only here, but in also other forums. But I cannot be bothered if others wish to do this and have multiple identities, and waste their own time, because my response to a post/thread would still be the same if they were made by the original member or the duplicated member.
john morgan wrote:I have read a post on CultExit.org saying that Sarah does not exist and that she has been invented by a Moderator on this forum. I wonder if anyone would like to comment as the implications of this are to my mind quite serious.
I have not checked if Sarah is a fake or not because I actually do not know how to do this. So I would be interested to know how it can be done and be explained on this forum, to save me time (which i don't have), and how the person on cultexit claim it to be. But interestingly you could be right, after all "Sarah" hasn't replied on the thread.

Is there some "The Battle of the Forum" war going on ? :roll:

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by tete » 19 Mar 2008

Bansy wrote:Is there some "The Battle of the Forum" war going on ?
Yes, indeed! :(

First, as moderators, the prime responsibility is to maintain everyone's confidentiality. If someone discloses who they are to you, they have disclosed who they are "Just to you". If they wish they will post who they are and where they are and with whom they are with. As moderators who have access to e-mails, IPs or other information; however, the modi operandi is "Maintain Confidentiality". Correct the spelling, formatting or color but allow individuals to come out when they are ready.

Surely, if we disclose all the contacts and locations of those that help (with collecting the documents or running the site) the effort will be lost. This site is collecting original Gyan documents, which takes great effort and commitment (which we greatly appreciate). Those doing the work expect no less of us here (site) who look at them, discuss them and take benefit from the site. The relationships that have been established will be broken if we listen to projections of individuals who are assuming things that are not true. One of the main reasons why there are active BKs (others too) that support this effort is the commitment to being just and fair.

I was not going to address this, but since John Morgan states the following:
John Morgan wrote:I wonder if anyone would like to comment as the implications of this are to my mind quite serious.
I will now address the rumour. An individual has made accusations which are inappropriate to repeat here. First, I have never met the individual in person and thereby the facts support my account and not the individual posting and passing on the gossip. Secondly, I am not Sarah and who or where any moderator is, is none of my concern. Sarah has a relationship that she is trying to mend and hopefully this fiasco hasn't caused her any discomfort or pain. Finally, there was a reply sent to the individual as to his allegations, I have been given the proof and Sarah is Sarah. Given that individuals come on here with great trepidation, I suggest we stop creating problems and concentrate on the real ones we have.

As to the individual, I send you all my love as you must be in a difficult place and I hope that in time you will be back to your old self (witty, charming and respectful). The moderator has not asked that the individual be banned as we recognise that this is a cyclical thing and has been dealt with accordingly in the past.

I don't post much because I feel I am not afforded the privacy I once had, which was lost due to the legal dispute. So, I respect others that come here and give and receive benefit from the forum. We continue to build new relationships, renew old friendships in an effort to come to some sense of peace with the BK experience. I would hope that we get beyond this issue. The site has thrived with the compassionate understanding and love that we have for one another and the willingness to share in the fellowship that is found here.

Regards,
Tete

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by admin » 19 Mar 2008

As the direction of this topic has changed considerably, it will be split in a day or so to another one in the admin forum.

If the individual making allegations wishes to identify their specific concerns in detail, please do so either in public or private.

It is enough to say here that 'sarah' is a genuine account and moderators have and will be provided with evidence to substantiate this. When sarah joined she had difficulties managing the registration process and, indeed, identified a fault with the new software we were not aware of. A fault others have experienced. Consequently, she had her account made for her by a moderator in the first place. The forum software does not register users addresses for each and every individual post and so it is not possible even for the admin to tell where any individual is located.

In the meanwhile, if you have concerns about any individual's conduct please raise the matter with them privately first, respect others needs for privacy and the spirit of the forum generally.

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by sarah » 20 Mar 2008

I have only just come onto this thread. I just looked up a private message in my messages and somebody who will remain anonymous has asked if I am a moderator. I don't understand. Why would a thread on karma be anything to do with moderating? I also don't understand why me registering with cult exit has anything to do with it either. When I joined this website a few weeks ago, I was desperate and struggling having just left the BK centre where I live. I looked at as many website as I could for support. Cult exit was one of them. I have not posted on there for a while because it was not really for me, i.e. I just wanted to move on. I was quite shocked just now to go on the cult exit website and find that there was a public attack on me from members of this forum. Some of the comments are really nasty and from people who on this forum I have always felt I had some sort of connection with.

I think that there has been a bit of maliciousness going on here and it hurts because I would have hoped that I could have trusted the people on this forum. In many of my posts I have been told that I would get support from this forum. I think that anyone pointing the finger has shown themselves up. Quite frankly, I think I will just forget posting anything on this forum again. It it bad enough struggling with leaving the BKs and feeling that I am not worthy of BABA or anything really. Who started it and why spread it to other websites? What was so controversial about my opening post on this thread. I have read it over and over again and it seems very innocent to me. I am not responsible for how the thread progressed.

Sarah

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by pilatus » 20 Mar 2008

Dear Sarah,

(Copied from other thread to give it emphasis)

Please don't let the actions and words of one idiot affect your decision whether to engage with the forum or not. I know very little (and care even less) about the mechancis of moderation. However, no-one could have really read your initial set of postings on the forum and concluded that you weren't real. Your story is very touching and similar to others we've all shared over the last few years. I understand that you may now want to be more cautious about your sharing with the forum (but don't forget that you can use personal messaging directly to those you feel you can trust). Please don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Lots of love and best wishes,

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by proy » 20 Mar 2008

It has now been confirmed to me in private that Sarah is a real person, and not someone made up by a moderator.

I hope she will stay with either or both of the forums.

This is not a forum war, just a misunderstanding. I believe that in the testing we have stood up, and that we are stronger for that.

proy.

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primal.logic
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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by primal.logic » 20 Mar 2008

Well I have just read this thread and noted that no accusations or allegations have been made or posted on this site. One very inconsiderate person has made some very inappropriate comments on another site, and one or two equally thoughtless people have bought into it. Let's not blow things out of proportion. My request is, given that enough rope has been let out, let's stop this thread HERE.

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by bansy » 20 Mar 2008

primal.logic wrote:lets stop this thread HERE.
I agree with what you say about ending it, primal logic, but as it stands every member stands accused of causing grief to Sarah, so the only way to fully clear it is for that accused person to stand up and face it in public and not in private. Otherwise, like Sarah, I can also no longer trust anyone on this forum. Hence I am trying to ask Sarah to boldly let the member name come up, because that member would be humble enough to apologise, then we can all move on.

It is not a nice situation,and maybe that accused person's did not have the intention to undermining this forum but stupidly had a swipe at poor Sarah, but he/she has indirectly done so and undermined the confidence in all members and the forum.

Now all I am concerned is in clearing my own name. I leave it for other members on this forum to do do for themselves, and maybe just grow up.

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by john morgan » 20 Mar 2008

I began the offshoot that will soon be removed from Sarah's topic just yesterday. The treatment of it by BK.info has been to my mind admirable, everything open and above board, no re-writing of history here! :D

A supportive invitation has been sent to the accuser, I vote that we are not in a hurry to close the thread but to leave it open for a possible response.

I will be happy when the suggestion of the off topic thread being moved is implemented as it will ensure that Sarah's valuable contribution to this site is no longer coloured by something that is nothing to do with her.

I'd like to apologise to Sarah and all whose attention has been taken up by this matter for not creating a new topic. In retrospect, it would have been much more appropriate.

Kindest regards to all,

John Morgan

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by tete » 20 Mar 2008

Sister Bansy,

First, let me state that I have the greatest respect for you. You have offered me some of the most challenging post interaction which helped me to grow in my journey to find my way. Sister Bansy, we are not an easy lot, and are grateful for the gifts that you have given us. Everyone on the forum has respect and admiration for you. You balance wisdom, knowledge, music and a sense of humour. You are Yin and Yang ... harmony in action. You serve as a great balance as you don't hide nor shy away from being direct. Upon my first encounter with you, I quickly acknowledged that you were a "Heavy Hitter" (a compliment).

The individual/moderator (Proy) has said his laments where the issue started back at cult exit and stated them directly to Sarah. I believe he is sincere in his regret and has learned from his actions. I have written Sarah directly after the first post and I am certain that she too will understand the following and hopefully will accept the apologies given. Sarah has indicated (via her posts) that she is in tune with the issue below and I am thankful for her understanding.

As to the originator, I would tend to agree with primal logic on this one/
circumstances. A call for help and understanding is often voiced in an awkward way. Behaviour, even odd behaviour is communication. Deciphering the behaviour (communication) often is hard, but the signs are there. Asking for help is some times the most difficult thing to do and often others are dragged in the midst of the fray (unjustly).

Compassionate loving understanding is the most appropriate way to close this matter. Even John Morgan would agree at this juncture that this is what is best. Further details are not necessary as it is more than transparent and the individual is in a hard enough place. It is my hope that others understand this too, as I hold no rancor or ill will for this individual and send him all my love during this difficult time.

Regards,
Tete

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by john morgan » 20 Mar 2008

How Tete knows what "even" I would agree with is beyond me - but he does :D.

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Re: Karma - is it all so bad?

Post by proy » 21 Mar 2008

Thanks for your post and the link to my apology Tete.

I will also keep the thread on cultexit open so that we can clear everything.

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