PBK on paper only

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shivsena
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Post by shivsena » 27 Jun 2007

pbkdivya wrote:All of us haven't attained the perfection stage including the soul of Ram. So no one dares to tell that they don't have lust or any other vices. It is common to get attracted to the opposite sex till one has attained perfection. I feel that it is not necessary for you to publicize your feelings in this forum. To have attraction for the opposite sex is a natural human factor.
Dear divya

Since you agree that we are all "criminal eyes" and not "civil eyes" (which i wanted to stress) then you will also agree that we are all PBKs on paper and not in real life? Also Murlis says that "Father comes and makes criminal eyes into civil eyes", and now from 1976 the PBKs believe that Father has come. But still no one has become 'civil eyes' after 30 years of being with Father. So does it not mean that the Father is still to come in future and when He (Ramshivbaba, i.e. Ram + shiv) comes we will all become civil eye in one second?
aimée wrote:The mother does exist, even if she is not present, and Baba asks us to have regard for her. Do you have regard for her if you are pretending she does not exist?
Dear aimee,

I have the highest regard for mother jagdamba and i have met her a couple of times after she has left the Yagya. Also i have all the highest regard for all 3 souls (shiv + Ram + Krishna) playing part in Virendra Dev Dixit. When i am sharing my views on this forum, i am trying to understand fully, why things are not happening as per the Murlis of ShivBap, why is there ambiguity and discrepancy between what is taught in advance knowledge, what is said in Murlis, why there is no unity and ek mat, if God himself is giving the advance knowledge?

This thing completely baffles me and i am trying to find out the answers to this. That is all.

shivsena.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:I have transmitted what Baba wrote to me directly! If you don't agree with Baba, then what can I say? You definitely do not have faith in Baba, then why do you continue to write posts in the PBK section?
Could I suggest that, just in the name of science, two PBKs ask the same complex question to Virendra Dev Dixit at two different times and see if they receive identically the same answer back? I don ot beleive either party is right or wrong, I just believe that the teacher teaches according to the minds of students or students in front of them at that time? I cannot believe the equation, that appears rife within PBK circles, that "all utterings are for all times".
aimée wrote:PS: The mother does exist, even if she is not present, and Baba asks us to have regard for her. Do you have regard for her if you are pretending she does not exist?
Can we also have the facts of the matter clarified in no inconclusive manner? We read that the Mama you write about has since had a child.

If this is true, does that mean she had become married and gotten pregnant? If so to whom?

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 27 Jun 2007

ex-l wrote:Could I suggest that, just in the name of science, two PBKs ask the same complex question to Veerendra Dev Dixit at two different times and see if they receive identically the same answer back? I don ot beleive either party is right or wrong, I just believe that the teacher teaches according to the minds of students or students in front of them at that time? I cannot believe the equation, that appears rife within PBK circles, that "all utterings are for all times".
There is a possibility that they may or may not receive the same answer depending on their karmic accounts or grasping power. In a recent Discussion CD recorded at a south Indian city ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit said that there could be 10-12 answers possible for every question. He also gave an example of Jain religion in this regard. I will try to quote it when the CD is released.
Can we also have the facts of the matter clarified in no inconclusive manner? We read that the Mama you write about has since had a child. If this is true, does that mean she had become married and gotten pregnant? If so to whom?
ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has not confirmed this in the Q&A that I conveyed through this forum.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Jun 2007

arjun wrote:ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) has not confirmed this in the Q&A that I conveyed through this forum.
I think he declined to answer really. Her potamail was none of our business he said, I think. Other PBKs have sort of fallen silent as with other related contentious issues.

No offense and no loss of repsect to you meant, Arjun. You do an excellent effort and exhibit laudable virtue in your service role. I don't want to burden Baba/Virendra Dev Dixit with requests at all and encourage others to make their own, or depend on existing information, rather than depend on you.

You appreciate that my role in Drama is different.

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Re: PBK on paper only

Post by Roy » 10 May 2011

pbkdivya wrote:I absolutely agree to your views. There is no such a place in the sky which is called Paramdham. What you have mentioned is accurate.
Dear brothers and sisters

“First of all (we) come in the Brahmin class, then the deity (class)... classes. The classes are only here. There is no question of classes in the Subtle Region at all…. ....You know that as is one’s feelings, so is the vision that is caused. Nonetheless, there is no matter of any snake etc. there. There can’t even be bulls there. In the Subtle Region, there are only deities. You visit the Subtle Region – you see garden, fruits, etc. Is there any garden there? Baba causes vision. But it does not exist. The intellect says – there cannot be trees etc. in the Subtle Region. It is certainly a vision. The vision would also be caused about here (i.e. this world). All this is a vision. This is called a game of magic. This is not knowledge.” [Mu 10.09.07]

I would like to check that my understanding of Paramdham, is in line with official AK teachings. I understand that Shivsena Bhai does not believe in the the Paramdham that is taught about, in basic knowledge; that is beyond the physical universe, and is home to all souls, including Father Shiv. Now although i have come to realise through my own initial churnings, and then having it confirmed through AK; that the Subtle Regions are not a region at all per se; but this is actually the spiritual "arena" for want of a better word, in which visions, and experiences occur. But this is actually taking place within us, the soul, whilst within our own bodies; we are not transported to the very end of the universe, in order to experience these visions; there is simply no need, as is explained in the above Murli point.

"Next to Father is Krishna. He (i.e. Father) is Master of the Soul World; this (Krishna) is the master of the corporeal world. There is nothing in the Subtle Region.". [Mu 6-1-76]

Now this point above, appears to be saying there is nothing in the Subtle Region, or no Subtle Region as such, that exists outside of visions and experiences. It also appears to be confirming, that there is a Soul World, or Paramdham. We already know for certain that there is a coporeal world, as we live or lives in it, in the here and now. However, when ShivBaba talks about Paramdham in AK, he is usually(if not always) talking about the nirakar(incorporeal/seed) stage; that He constantly remains in, even when He is playing the role of ShivBaba, within Shankar(Baba Dixit), His coporeal Chariot. The Paramdham(bodiless) stage, is also what we are aiming for as students of AK. This means becoming jeevanmukt, or aquiring the bodiless(Paramdham)stage, whilst remaining in the living body; or going from Nar to Narayan, in this very birth. ShivBaba tell us in AK, that we should bring down the stage of Paramdham to earth, or experience it here on earth. So this also, appears to imply, that there is a Paramdham(Soul World), beyond this physical world. Baba has made a clear contrast in the point above, between the Soul World and the corporeal world. I say this because, for Sangamyugi Krishna(as he is next to Shiva-bapsaman, this is not Brahma Baba), it is said that he is master of the corporeal world. But in order to be so, he has to reach the Paramdham, or nirakar(incorporeal/bodiless) stage, or in other words, become bapsaman(equal to Godfather Shiv). So ShivBaba is talking about a future point when Sangamyugi Krishna reaches the 100% nirakar stage in 2018. He is then the master of the corporeal world, and Ramraj begins. I am not aware of ShivBaba ever saying, that there is no actual Soul World or Paramdham, in the SM, or in AK. This is with good reason imo; because the 7 billion souls currently existing in corporeal bodies on this planet, have to have somewhere to go and "rest", after final world destruction in 2036, whilst they await their return to the Drama, at their alloted fixed point(shot within the Confluence Age Drama) in the Cycle of 5000 years. It would be a great punishment for these souls to be kept floating about in the physical world, for up to 5000 years; and also; most have no right to witness, the Golden and Silver Age, even from an observer point of view imo(but this would still be punishment, as they would have a strong wish to play a part in this wonderful world). So, these souls need to be taken out of this physical world completely, where they can rest in a completely dormant state, of absolutely no consciousness or awareness. Imo, this state of being, is automatically induced, when the karmateet souls, having been liberated from their suffering and karmas(i.e.achieved mukti), enter Paramdham(the Soul World). It is Paramdham that is infinite imo, not the physical universe, which although immense beyond our imagination, is infact, a completely closed, physical energy system; so that no energy is ever lost from it, as would be the case, in the vastness of physical infinity. I don't believe the 5000 year Cycle, could actually function, if this were not the case; as everything at the end of the Cycle, has to return to its original place, as it was in the beginning. Also; if there was an infinite universe; our spititual vibrations, would imo, not have the same impact as they do now, on the physical world or universe; as this affect would be "watered down" or diluted by physical infinity. As it is, these physical affects, are kept within the closed system, and cannot escape; therefore karma is inescapable, even on the physical level; as it literally "bounces back", to its point of origin, at some point in the Drama. All action(karma) be it spiritual(subtle) or physical(brought into the practical form), is entrapped, or contained, within this perfect enclosed system. Baba has also said in the Murli, something to the effect; that at the end(final desrtruction), He comes and takes us(souls) back home(Paramdham), like a swarm of mosquitoes.

Any comments are very much welcome... i think! :D

Roy

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arjun
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Re: PBK on paper only

Post by arjun » 10 May 2011

Roy Bhai,
Om Shanti. I think the views expressed by you above are in accordance with AK. However, I am producing some extracts for the information of everyone.
OGS,
Arjun
----------------------------------------
Disc.CD-423, dated 20.10.07 at Calcutta
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 37.00-37.20
Student: Baba, what is non-living Supreme Abode that is shown in the pictures?

Baba: You children will bring the Supreme Abode down to this Earth. So, are the non-living things closer to the world or beyond the world of the Sun, the Moon, and the stars? (Someone said – It is in Mount Abu) Yes.
Student: So, there will be subtle Supreme Abode there.
Baba: Yes.

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arjun
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Re: PBK on paper only

Post by arjun » 10 May 2011

Disc.CD No.427, dated 01.11.07 at Nilanga
Extracts-Part-3


Time: 6.30
Student: Baba, how is Supreme Soul Shiv ‘thought reader’ (antaryami) in the Supreme Abode?

Baba: Is the question of inside and outside applicable to this world or outside ? It is about this world. Does the question of high and low pertain to this world or the Supreme Abode?

Time: 6.56
Student: How is Shiv non-living when He is in the Supreme Abode?

Baba: Something is called non-living when the body made up of the five elements remains just an effigy, when the soul is not present in it, then it is called non-living. Is there a body in the Supreme Abode? It doesn’t exist at all. It is not a topic of that place at all. There, it is neither a question of inertness nor of life. But it is true that the sanskars of playing a part is contained in the soul; when it is destined to play that part, it will play its part at that time. The part of the Supreme Soul is fixed. When will He come and play His part? Whenever there is the Confluence Age, He will come and play His part. So, His accounts of sins and charity aren’t made at all

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arjun
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Re: PBK on paper only

Post by arjun » 10 May 2011

Disc.CD No.444, dated 25.11.07 at Vijayvihar, Part-2
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 9.40-14.48
Student: Baba, the Supreme Abode which is situated all around the sky....

Baba: All around the sky? Is it not all around the Earth?
Student: It is all around the Earth as well. So, when the Supreme Soul Shiv goes back, in which direction does He become constant?
Baba: The soul that assumes the perfect stage.....now there are souls of ghosts and spirits; are they perfect? They are not perfect, but even then they have lost their physical body. They have gone beyond the bondage of the physical body. So, how much power do they assimilate? Do they acquire more power or do they have less power? They become very powerful. For example, it has been said for Kumarka Dadi that until she was in her body, there was bondage of public honour (lok-laaj). She was not able to utter the truth; gurus cannot utter the truth at all; but when she left her body, and as soon as she assumed a subtle body, the entire truth became clear in her intellect regarding what is the truth. If you read the Avyakt Vanis carefully, they tell you. It is mentioned in the Avyakt Vani.

So, it proves that the subtle body possesses so much power. And if a soul renounces the subtle body as well, if it becomes detached from its bondage as well, then it can obtain information it wants from whichever place of this world in a second or not? It can. This has made it clear that all those souls which will go on becoming perfect will have a sphere (daairaa) of their own, in which they will be more powerful. It means that the sphere of Shiv is the biggest sphere in this entire world, in the entire atmosphere, in the entire sky. He can keep everyone under His control. After Him, the soul that becomes perfect is Prajapita. Even that Prajapita cannot cross the sphere of Shiv, but within his sphere he will encircle the entire world.

For example it has been said in a Murli that the seed (soul of the human creation) contains the knowledge of the entire (human) tree, just as the entire tree is contained in the seed. And as for this one, it is a variety tree. What? For example, there are many kinds of trees (growing) from a tree (jhar). You must have often seen that a Peepal tree also grows out on a Banyan tree. A Neem tree also grows on it. A mango tree also grows out of it. So, similarly, this is a variety tree and there are variety seeds of the variety tree, but everyone is numberwise. There is a seed which is the only seed of the entire world. So, these are numberwise souls; the Earth is round and there is atmosphere all around the spherical Earth and there is horizon (kshitij) all around the atmosphere which is called space. There is not even oxygen over there. And all around the horizon (space) there is only the Supreme Abode and nothing else. It means that the more powerful a soul is, it will stay in a higher stage beyond the five elements of the Earth and it will stay in a bigger sphere to that extent. And the less powerful a soul is, the lesser intellect it has, the smaller will be its range. It means that there is a soul in trees and plants too.

When the world is flooded, when the atom bombs explode, then all of them (i.e. trees and plants) will perish. They too will remain in their sphere but they are inert. Their sphere will be very small. The sphere of the insects and spiders will be bigger than theirs. And the sphere of animals will be bigger than this. And the sphere of human beings will be much bigger than that. And even among them (i.e. the human beings) the Suryavanshi souls (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) will include everyone within their sphere. So, it is not as if the Supreme Abode is above; Arey, the Earth is spherical. When we are sitting here (according to the location on the globe), the upper portion is here while America is on the opposite side of the spherical Earth. So, will it be said that the Supreme Abode is in the underworld (paataal)? No. The Supreme Abode is everywhere. So, when the soul becomes perfect, it encloses, it covers the entire world in its sphere.

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arjun
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Re: PBK on paper only

Post by arjun » 10 May 2011

Disc.CD No.657, dated 21.10.08 at Jammu
Extracts-Part-1


Time: 08.51
Student: Baba, it is mentioned in the Murlis : remember the Father and remember home, isn’t it? The Father has left the Supreme Abode and has come down in the appointed Chariot. Now should we consider the Supreme Abode or the appointed Chariot as the home?

Baba: Does the Father, who has come down, live in a house or in a jungle? The body in which He has come , that body indeed is His home. So, remember the home as well as the Father and remember heaven as well. When we meet the Father, does it bring happiness or sorrow? Happiness is experienced only in heaven. Only the world of happiness is called heaven . So, he is our heaven as well as our abode of happiness; he is our home as well as our Father. On the one side, He says , ‘Remember Me alone’ and on the other side He confuses the children by saying , remember the home, remember the abode of happiness, remember the Father. So, children are confused , should we remember three things? Then on the other side He says , ‘Remember Me alone’. But these are not different things. They are the same thing.

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Roy
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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: PBK on paper only

Post by Roy » 11 May 2011

Thank you Arjun Bhai; i think i have understood. I found it interesting that plant life has a soul... tree hugging types have been saying this for a while! :D

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