PBK on paper only

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 22 Jun 2007

What does it mean PBK on paper only and not in real life? Doesn't it mean that, really, you are not a PBK? And if you really wanted to learn from PBKs, then you would not oppose them, and you would not try to impose your ideas, which are directly going against advance knowledge.

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Post by paulkershaw » 22 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:What does it mean PBK on paper only and not in real life? Doesn't it mean that, really, you are not a PBK? And if you really wanted to learn from PBKs, then you would not oppose them, and you would not try to impose your ideas, which are directly going against Advanced Knowledge.
Hi Aimee

Would it be fair to say to you that you do seem to be somewhat concerned with those that you feel are 'against' Advanced Knowledge' (A/K) (as taught by the PBKs) at the moment? It is possible that I am interpreting things incorrectly but are you saying that if anyone speaks up against this supposedly A/K then they are in opposition?

If this is so I'd like to share that I consider (and I grant you that I do not know much Advanced Knowledge at present) 'Gyani knowledge' to be very limited and limiting and not very advanced at all, in terms of my current studies and philosophies.

However, this does not stop me identifying that BK/PBK teachings don't have some merit even if I don't accept everything within these practices as being correct.

What I pick up from your posting above is that you are saying that anyone who 'imposes' their own ideas is opposing A/K ... If this is so, then I can humbly suggest that you reconsider your position. In my view, surely the more Advanced types of knowledge one learns, should make one more open and receptive to other ideals and philosophies as well?

Or are you, like I have previously posted, saying that its not whats said, its about how it is said that concerns you?

What say you? Regards ~ p~

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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:What does it mean PBK on paper only and not in real life?
Please allow me to speak on behalf of shivsena for one moment to say what he could never say about himself.

A "PBK on paper" says to me a cautious, humble and honest PBK that realises that the final destination has not been reached and that there are many revellations still to come out.

I would have said the same about myself as a "BK soul". To me the greatest danger comes from individuals who say, "I am a BK, this is what BK is" (ditto PBK). Often they are the very ones that are doing the greatest disservice by their false associations, and it is the dissident voice asking "What if ... what does this mean?" that is doing the greatest service to the organization and world at large.

No one knows what their real number is until it is called come the end, and it is well established with the PBK that you have good and bad on both sides. I would err of the side of caution rather than lay down the law. So, although he is an independent voice, I do not think he or his discussion is part of a splinter group philosophy.

For example, your interpretation of his comments on Paramdham was, I think, too quickly made and incorrect. It does not seem to me that he was saying that "Paramdham does not exist". It says to me that he was saying that, "Paramdham did not exist as a egg world somewhere up in the sky". Those are two different positions ...

To speak of one's own group as a third party ("the PBKs say ... the PBK view") is not to disassociate one's self but just demonstrates a fair intellectual detachment and objectivity. Especially when Shiva Baba is also not a PBK member, per se.

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Post by shivsena » 22 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:What does it mean PBK on paper only and not in real life? Doesn't it mean that, really, you are not a PBK? And if you really wanted to learn from PBKs, then you would not oppose them, and you would not try to impose your ideas, which are directly going against Advanced Knowledge.
Dear aimee.

I think you missed my post about "Are we really PBKs?". It is good to call ourselves PBKs on paper, but let us analyse by various Murli points and by logic whether we have become PBKs in practical life as well.

First of all the word 'pbk' means that we are all the children of both Jagatpita (Father) and Jagdamba (Maa), as opposed to the BKs who are only the children of mother. Now those pbk children who have seen both jagatpita and jagdamba in person can be called as PBKs in principle, but what about those PBKs who are being born after jagdamba Maa has left the Yagya in 1999? Can they call themselves children of both mother and Father?? (as they have never seen their mother). Is it not necessary that both parents have to be present physically to produce children who can then rightfully be called PBKs?

Also when we write our letter of faith, we accept Jagatpita and Jagdamba as our Father and mother, and so we become their children. But inspite of giving in writing, both Jagatpita and Jagdamba call us anilbhai-raghubhai-rajni behan-meena behan etc etc. They never call us baccha and bacchi ... WHY??? Because there is no surety that even though we become PBKs, and give in writing also, there is no guarantee that we will not have any doubt in future and leave Bap's hand (as is evident by the fact that many former PBKs have had doubts and have left Baba's hand and returned to lokik life or formed their own groups).

Once Baba was asked this question by one brother, "Baba we all children call you Baba-Baba but you call us Bhai- behan-, why is it so?? Then Baba replied, ''that children have accepted Baba, but Baba has not yet accepted the children. They will be accepted as children only when 108 rudramala will be formed (vasudeva kutumbkum) and all will be united by one thread of Godly knowledge, all will be of one opinion and all 108 will start revealing the Father in their respective sections.'' (That is, when we can call ourselves true PBKs).

Also the Murli says that ''prajapita brahma ki aulad Bhai-behan hote hain'', meaning that once we become PBKs we become brothers-sisters and we all should become "civil eyes" i.e., we should not have even a trace of lust in our eyes. Can any pbk today say with 100% certainty that he has conquered lust and has become civil eyes!!!! At least i certainly cannot say that, the female form still holds attraction to me and i still have a roving eye to a beautiful face and a beautiful body. Baba says, if anyone can say that he has conquered lust 100%, then he will be put to test.

Also Baba says that, ''prajapita mukh-vansha-vali brahmin sirf Parshottam Sangamyug par hi hote hain'' (meaning that PBKs exist only in Confluence Age). Right now we are in the fag end of the shooting period of Kaliyug in the behad ka drama, so only when the Kaliyugi shooting ends, and when the real auspicious Confluence Age of this behad ka Sangamyugi drama starts, that is when both Father and mother (who will have returned by then) will be present physically, only then we will become true PBKs. Right now we all PBKs are behad ka shudras of this behad ka Sangamyugi drama.

So, obviously, during the shooting period of the behad ka Sangamyugi drama - it is good to write pbk on paper - but we are still very far from becoming true PBKs.

shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 24 Jun 2007

ex-l wrote:I'd always err on the side of caution because, inevitably, you are propelling yourself into the top 108 by your own logic. In fact, probably even higher than the 108 because you see, understand and communicate even that which Lekhraj Kirpalani, Veerendra Dev Dixit or Shiva Baba is not willing or able to.
Dear ex-l
I am quoting a Murli point dated 19-3-73 below.

"There are a few children who teach better than mother and Father (Maa-bap se bhi achha padane wale bacche hain). ShivBaba is the highest authority. No one can go above Him (ShivBaba ki baat hai hi oonch teh oonch). But there are children who are more intelligent than mother and Father (Mama-baba se bhi hoshiyar bacche hain). Those who stay outside (meaning not surrendered) understand the knowledge more (bahar walon ne Gyan ka teer pura chat kar liya hai)".

The above Murli mahavakya of ShivBap clearly indicates that the 108 rudrabeads are more powerful than Krishna's soul who plays the role of mata-pita (prajapita brahma). 'ShivBaba' described above is not bindi ShivBaba but 'Ramshivbaba' who is no.1 soul. (No one can go ahead of no.1 soul).

shivsena.

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Paramdham

Post by shivsena » 24 Jun 2007

ex-l wrote:Please allow me to speak on behalf of shivsena for one moment to say what he could never say about himself.
Dear ex-l,
Thanks for speaking on my behalf; but i have never had any problem about expressing anything about myself and my views on goldy knowledge anytime. Unless i believe in anything strongly, i will never give my views about the same.
For example, your interpretation of his comments on Paramdham was, I think, too quickly made and incorrect. It does not seem to me that he was saying that "Paramdham does not exist". It says to me that he was saying that, "Paramdham did not exist as a egg world somewhere up in the sky". Those are two different positions ...
Yes, you are very right. When i say that there is no Paramdham above, then it means that there is no egg shaped world somewhere above in space where all souls go up and remain in suspended animation like seeds. What is meant by Paramdham is the stage of complete 100% incorporeal stage where the soul while remaining in the body will experience the 100% thoughtlessness stage.

shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 24 Jun 2007

ex-l wrote:A "PBK on paper" says to me a cautious, humble and honest PBK that realises that the final destination has not been reached.
Om Shanti. I agree with the above statement. In fact, there was a discussion on this subject in the Discussion CD that was played at the mini-Madhubans where I attended the weekly class today.

The Discussion CD was recorded at Mumbai mini-Madhubans. ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) said that a PBK in real sense was the one who follows the Shrimat and not just the one who submits letter of faith in the form of Court Affidavit. He said that it is precisely for this reason that there is a clause in the letter of faith that I will do whatever Baba says, eat whatever Baba says, drink whatever Baba says. This is mentioned several times in the Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vanis too.

During the discussion the point mentioned by Shivsena Bhai was also raised by one of the PBKs, but I do not remember the exact reply given by Baba. The brother probably asked Baba that whether all those who are giving affidavits of letters of faith are PBKs or whether the affidavits which are signed/accepted by Baba are PBKs. I suppose Baba endorsed the latter view that the affidavits which which are signed/accepted by Baba are PBKs.

A PBK mother (who keeps raising a lot of questions in every discussion class recorded at Mumbai) also raised the issue of Mama. I do not remember her exact words, but probably she asked about the status of Mama as a PBK and Baba replied that when He has accepted her as Mama, then there is no doubt about her being a PBK.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote:Those who stay outside (meaning not surrendered) understand the knowledge more (bahar walon ne Gyan ka teer pura chat kar liya hai)".
Potent words that should written on the back of the front door of every BK center.

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 26 Jun 2007

Shivsena,

The fact that the mother is not there does not mean we don't have any mother. We also are put in test. Baba also says that the boat will shake but not sink. This is the guaranty that she will be here in due time.

Also Baba cannot say children, because if he recognisees himself as God, he becomes like Hiranyakashap. Finally:
Now it is not Swarnim Sangamyug, it starts when Lakshmi comes. Now the foundation is laid through the seed souls of Suryavanshi i.e. of Sun dynasty.
This is all answers from Baba. The quote is his exact words.

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Post by pbkdivya » 27 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote:At least I certainly cannot say that, the female form still holds attraction to me and I still have a roving eye to a beautiful face and a beautiful body
Dear shivsena Bhai,

All of us haven't attained the perfection stage, including the soul of Ram. So no one dares to say that they don't have lust or any other vices. It is common to get attracted to the opposite sex until one has attained perfection. I feel that it is not necessary for you to publicize your feelings in this forum. To have attraction for the opposite sex is a natural human factor.

Om Shanti, divya

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Post by pbkdivya » 27 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote:Yes, you are very right. When I say that there is no Paramdham above, then it means that there is no egg shaped world somewhere above in space where all souls go up and remain in suspended animation like seeds. What is meant by Paramdham is the stage of complete 100% incorporeal stage where the soul while remaining in the body will experience the 100% thoughtlessness stage.
Dear shivsena Bhai,

I absolutely agree to your views. There is no such a place in the sky which is called Paramdham. What you have mentioned is accurate.

Om Shanti, divya

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Post by pbkdivya » 27 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote:The above Murli mahavakya of ShivBap clearly indicates that the 108 rudrabeads are more powerful than Krishna's soul who plays the role of mata-pita (Prajapita Brahma). 'ShivBaba' described above is not bindi ShivBaba but 'Ramshivbaba' who is no.1 soul. (No one can go ahead of no.1 soul).
Dear brother,

If you have unconditional faith that Rambap is no.1 soul, then shouldn't the no.1 soul become the Father of humanity? Only a powerful soul like Rambap is qualified to become the Father of humanity. I feel it is illogical that child Krishna, who possesses a child mind, be revealed in future as Prajapita. Krishna's soul, who is less powerful than the 108 beads, becoming the world leader; it is indigestible.

Om Shanti, divya

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Post by shivsena » 27 Jun 2007

pbkdivya wrote: If you have unconditional faith that Rambap is no.1 soul, then shouldn't the no.1 soul become the Father of humanity. Only a powerful soul like Rambap is qualified to become the Father of humanity. I feel it is illogical that child Krishna who possesses a child mind be revealed in future as Prajapita. Krishna'a soul who is less powerful than the 108 beads becoming the world leader. It is indigestible.
Dear divya,

I have full faith in Rambap as 'ShivBaba' according to the Murli points of ShivBap. If you believe Ram is prajapita, and if you have unconditional faith in Krishna's teachings of advance knowledge, then i have nothing further to discuss with you. We are having diametrically opposite views in this regard. So let us pursue our own views and let time decide who is right and who is wrong.

shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 27 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:The fact that the mother is not there does not mean we don't have any mother. We also are put in test. Baba also says that the boat will shake but not sink. This is the guaranty that she will be here in due time.
I cannot accept the fact that children can be created without the mother. If this was so, then lokik children should have been created in the world without the mother (whatever happens in alokik family is reflected in the lokik family). If you can accept this, then i have nothing further to say.
Also Baba cannot say children, because if he recognisees himself as God, he becomes like Hiranyakashap.
In the Murlis it is said that, "Father comes and gives his own introduction". If shivbindi is playing the role of Bap-teacher-Satguru through Virendra Dev Dixit, then why does He (ShivBap) not say that He is the Father of children? There is no question of ShivBap being called Hiranyakashap. Anyone else saying that would amount to being Hiranyakashap but certainly not ShivBap?
Now it is not Swarnim Sangamyug, it starts when Lakshmi comes. Now the foundation is laid through the seed souls of Suryavanshi i.e. of Sun dynasty. This is all answers from Baba. The quote is his exact words.
Please quote only from Murlis of ShivBap which all believe (not from cassettes which only PBKs believe).

shivsena

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Post by aimée » 27 Jun 2007

Please my dear brother,

I have transmitted what Baba wrote to me directly! If you don't agree with Baba, then what can I say? You definitely do not have faith in Baba, then why do you continue to write posts in the PBK section?

If you were curious and enquiring about the advance knowledge, then fine. Obviously this is not the case, you keep opposing what the PBK are trying to tell you, in all fronts.

Why don't you then expose your own belief system in the new section, then it will be clear. I am sure many will be interested by it, and they would be willing to read you with great interest. Here, you will only find PBK who are going to defend the knowledge and the Father they believe in.

PS: The mother does exist, even if she is not present, and Baba asks us to have regard for her. Do you have regard for her if you are pretending she does not exist?

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