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john
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Post by john » 22 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:For me the PBK section is for anyone to understand what the Advance Party is. In the present situation, I doubt this is possible, how does a newcomer find his way in this labyrinth of different churnings?.
There are sticky posts, where the advance knowledge is left mostly uninterrupted.
This is the only public site that allows the PBK to show who they are are to invite anyone to understand what the Advance Party is
I am not sure what you mean by public as there was or is a PBK yahoo forum, yet it is completely dead having read through it I believe partly because any criticism was heavily frowned upon.
Is it the same opposition in the BK section, freely accepted? maybe I should have a look at it...
I think you should, in comparison PBKs get an easy time.

What credentials do you feel you have above any others to decide what is right or wrong , should stay or go?

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 22 Jun 2007

John wrote:I am not sure what you mean by public as there was or is a PBK yahoo forum, yet it is completely dead having read through it I believe partly because any criticism was heavily frowned upon.
I don't know which PBK Yahoo forum you are talking about.

I knew about one named adidev-ShivBaba@yahoogroups.com. Most of the questions raised on that forum were answered by PBKs or ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) as is done here. But that forum became inactive because it involved discussions through email, which led to inboxes of members becoming full. Besides some people started sending spam mails. And there is another problem that the mails sent to that group cannot be copied to Word Files and hence it was somewhat difficult to continue with.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 22 Jun 2007

I've had a look at the BK section, and ...you are quite right. It is an eye opener, I am not surprised that very few BKs are posting in it.

However, I stick to my belief. It is true that some topics don't have opposition. But there was a lovely atmosphere at the beginning of this website and I am saying it is not the same any more, and it is a shame.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:there was a lovely atmosphere at the beginning of this website and I am saying it is not the same any more, and it is a shame.
It will change again.

When someone new enters the forum, they let some of that cold air from outside in. But after a while it warms back up and things becoming comfortable again. You have to remember how isolated some members of the family are, have been and give them the benefit of your doubt ... if not your love.

Likewise the BK forum. It will take some reasonable BKs to come in and warm things up there. Unfortunately those that we have been 'blessed with' so far did not have the purity or darna to cope with it well ... and I would guess that the majority of BK have been banned by the leadership to avoid it. If for no reason that real, live PBKs are also here!

If you ask me, we have on this forum set a new baseline for truth, honesty and mental courage within the BK World. Not every one is ready to step up to that line. Was it not a most senior BK, Karuna in Madhuban, that was accusing us of theft and blaming the PBKs for this entire website, or at least categorising it as the same!?!

If that is the best they have to offer ... I think that we are doing alright here.

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 22 Jun 2007

You are right, it is definitely precious to have a place were everyone can share openly. I just have to watch and see how it all evolves. I hope you are right ex-I and that it becomes comfortable again as you say... :roll:

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Jun 2007

aimée wrote:You are right, it is definitely precious to have a place were everyone can share openly. I just have to watch and see how it all evolves.
Too many brothers (or male sanskars) ... too much head and not enough heart. It lacks balance.

But step back from it for a while, see it as a whole and be patient. In terms of BK history, it has to be one of the most powerful advances for the Advance Party in the West, thanks to your and Arjun's quiet, patient work. Before this, what was there? A few web pages and a lot of gossip. Now the West BKs, media and academics at least are forced to be aware of you and see something closer to reality, including how you deal with disputes and controversy.

I did suggest a long time ago, that PBK brothers spoke to PBK Matas or sisters and enabled their accessing the forum, i.e. helping them say something on here and share their experience, especially if they were those without computers or internet.

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 22 Jun 2007

I remember that, some time ago, and it actually sound a very good idea. It went past me at that time. What we need is more sharing, something that feels real, experiences. Around me there are so few PBKs ...

Thank you so much for your warm and encouraging post. It is true that this place is precious, and maybe crucial in the history of the Yagya. Let's nurture it.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 23 Jun 2007

Dear brother John,
You yourself have made claims in the past about the PBK giving the knowledge, that this is not a PBK forum ,they should have their own forum ect.

It is practical suggestion that may make things more clear, otherwise it becomes like spam advertising, the pop-up windows that pop up every time you like to go to a site. It is a matter of polution of the information channel.

Nomatter we may have differences of oppinion amongst ourselves it is one thing these are not so big, but it is seen that when the oppinion is totally in the opposite, then it just becomes the situation of "defending the country". So one can have a place where to voice his oppinion independently.

Maybe we are just that old-fashioned type that still believe in unity, that we may live together peacefully.

Some say that this knowledge is limited, but why? One may say why do you don't talk about chakras, spirits etc. in this knowledge. Other knowledge talks about these, why should the knwoledge be repeated here also. If one would like to materialise eggs made out of jewels from the nose, then one should go to Sai Baba. It is this situation that people don't really come to learn and discuss out of interest, but come to boost their own knowledge learnt from somewhere else, or advertise themselves or some other knowledge. There are very few who know or study the advance knwoledge and they should have the opportunity to share it.

In the BK forum there are very less BKs to answer, whilst it is seen that all queries in the PBK forum are adressed.

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john
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Post by john » 23 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:You yourself have made claims in the past about the PBK giving the knowledge, that this is not a PBK forum ,they should have their own forum ect.
I've said nothing of the sort. Yet again you fail to understand, or maybe not even bother, to listen properly to what I've said (or anyone for that matter). I've got nothing against anyone giving advance knowledge. In fact, i was one of those that lobbied for PBKs to be allowed to be on this forum.

I am against censorship, propaganda and most of all those who go around saying they fly the flag for God but talk nonsense. Putting PBK as your title DOES NOT mean you automatically understand the truth or even advance knowledge.

All, in my humble opinion, of course :D.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 23 Jun 2007

Because i cannot back up my statements with a proof, then i excuse myself and agree to attribute it to a wrong impression.

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john
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Post by john » 23 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:because I cannot back up my statement with a proof, then I excuse myself and agree to attribute it to wrong impression.
Thank you, AndreyBhai. I will accept your apology and move on.

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pbktrinityshiva
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Post by pbktrinityshiva » 25 Jun 2007

I once asked Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) about those PBKs propagating diverging views on knowledge and the influence this puts on new souls to knowledge. His reply was that the ones whose minds would distract easily will be automatically distracted.

Its true I think. If people belong to our clan, they will come no matter what obstacles are in front. If they belong to those PBK souls who will be converted to other religions, they are going to be influenced by the opinions of others eventually. All must be allowed to perform actions.

Whilst its sad to see the unity go to some extent, its clear the 9 religous groups within PBK are beginning to show themselves through the diverging opinions on the same knowledge.

Each PBK or ex-PBK will of course believe his interpretation to be correct in his heart, so he will want to share that. Its natural this divergence eventually has to happen and I assume we are only going to see more of it.

A sense of brotherhood can still be maintained even if there is some divergence in opinion.

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aimée
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Post by aimée » 25 Jun 2007

What you are saying is also totally true, the Mahabharat war seems to be here already, in the BK and the PBK world, and the biggest effort is to fight for truth within ourselves, to which extend we have faith in ourselves and Baba. Then are we supposed to defend Baba's knowledge against the other groups that have formed against him?

Maybe I am wrong, but for me I feel it is also my duty to raise the voice for truth and to fight for it, a non-violent war of course, but the Mahabharat is definitely a war. Ravan spreads 10 different directions and brings sorrow, Ram brings the one direction that gives unity and happiness. What is my mission as a Pandav?

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paulkershaw
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Post by paulkershaw » 25 Jun 2007

aimée wrote: ... and the biggest effort is to fight for truth within ourselves ... Ram brings the one direction that gives unity and happiness.
I'd suppose the question could come up as to what truth really is and it seems to me that if someone truly knew "The Truth", so to speak, then they would not ever have need to fight to prove it.

I, personally, feel that anyone trying to prove their truth to be 'The Real Truth', actually hasn't found it at all. 'Real Truth' should bring Unity and Happiness and as this is not happening in totality then ideally we could perhaps agree that BKism/PBKism is only an aspect of 'truth'.

Truth is interpretive and relative in any case.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 25 Jun 2007

Yes, it is said that there is no need to prove the truth. It is self-evident. If you try to prove it it becomes like stubborness.

It is said also that truth is imperishable. No one can also hide it as no one can hide the sun.

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