Guidance on the PBK forum

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Guidance on the PBK forum

Post by admin » 19 May 2006

The following is shamelessly borrowed from the defunct xBKChat forum without permission and is the work its of respected admin who has stopped his work inthis field. For those that don't know the history, PBKs had to be banned from that forum because of their aggressive or insensitive use of the Murli. Please read to avoid history repeating ;
We understand PBKs' attachment to the Murli. However, this is not the place to post lengthy quotes from the Murli. This site is for sharing of personal opinions, experiences etc. It is not completely forbidden to refer to a Murli point but, if you must do so, please do so very briefly (meaning one or two lines).

Sometime ago, a member asked a question and was never given an answer. The question was when PBKs refer to "Murli" points, which "Murli" are they referring to? In other words, is it a Murli that was given through the medium of Bramha Baba, Dadi Gulzar or your leader Mr Dixit? It is very important to make that clear. If not, you will lose credibility and readers will be confused.

If you must quote from a "Murli" write at the beginning :

• through medium Dada Lekhraj [ Lekhraj Kirpalani ] or Brahma Baba [ BB ],
• through medium Dadi Gulzar [ DG ] or
• through V Dev Dixit [ Virendra Dev Dixit ]


as the case may be. If not, you risk being seen as dishonest and attempting to mislead. You MUST state this clearly any time you give a brief Murli quote. When you use the words "Revised Murli" or some such term, you may be indicating that it was delivered through Mr Dixit.

Readers however, will not know that, and therefore can be misled. Please make it absolutely clear by stating through whom the Murli was delivered. Stating the date it was delivered would also be good. We are not encouraging you to quote Murlis, but if you do, please follow these guidelines.

Instead of continually pasting Murli points, we suggest you think about sharing some personal experiences. Since you seem unwilling or unable to do so, here are a few possible topics that you can think about:
  • * Why I left the BKs
    * Why I joined the PBKs
    * Personal experiences with V Dixit
    * A day in the life of a PBK
    * My stay in Kampil / Faroukabad
    * Reflections on the spiritual life
    * My experience in Mount Abu
    * Observations of places, people and life in India
    * Visits to PBK centers in India and abroad
    * Challenges in the yogi life
    * Conversations with a senior brother / sister

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john
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Post by john » 03 Sep 2006

for those interested in PBKs related matters, to discuss them with PBKs & others.
May I remind PBK brothers and sisters of the title of the forum.

Whilst proselytising might be the agenda of some PBKs it is not the agenda of the forum, so I think respect should be shown to the place you are visiting.

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Post by pbktrinityshiva » 03 Sep 2006

i cant find many examples of it happening :| maybe because thats because I am a pbk lols :roll: .. anyway I think theres a difference between proselytizing and explaining according to what one holds true ... although all may not agree on whether a particular statement falls into which category. I sure hope i haven't been proselytizing.

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Post by andrey » 03 Sep 2006

BK, x-BK, PBK no matter the title everyone will make others only the same as himself. Should we remind the x-BKs too that you be careful or you might spoil the good faith of a fellow BK. Should also anyone leave his own faith so that we can freely interact. It's an independent space. Where is the problem? Where is the margin from discussion to proselytising. It sais for those interested. If one is not interested, then what does he do here?

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Post by john » 03 Sep 2006

The problem is when prosetyltising gets in the way of truth.

When a query is put to PBKs that is easy then, then they will jump to answer, when the query seems more difficult then out trots the usual ...'why ask so many questions', 'if you want to follow human preceptors, it is up to you'.

Why is there no humility to say, 'I don't know'?
Andrey wrote:If one is not interested, then what does he do here?
What are you doing here if you are not willing to discuss points, without just clogging up your posts with rehashed Murli of no relevance to the questions

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Post by andrey » 03 Sep 2006

Yes, i see. I rehash because I like the Murli and maybe someone does not know it. That's why. Sure there are many questions that need answer and who will be the one to say I can answer all your questions. But even before posing a question one can try to find the answer himself instead. Why should one think that others may know better. I can also know. If I don't know I can ask. Yes, in discussion many nice points emerge, but investigate - nothing new comes up. Ask - all the nice points will appear to be Baba's points, and no one will like to claim authority over them.

So it again comes the asking-questions issue. If you think you are more clever, then, please, explain to others. If you feel inferior then ask. Is this the point? No. My personal point is that I like to share Baba's points of knowledge in the best way I can. If it is proselytizing then OK I do. But honestly so many things I don't know, but I believe that I would learn.

Do you too honestly believe that you will find answers to your questions, or is it neti - neti. Neither this - nor that. No one knows neither one can know. Then I think no discussion can happen. If it is not this, nor that, then what it is? We should find solutions. We should find the answer.

If it is a matter of togetherness and that truth will be born in a good discussion then OK. I personally think that only ShivBaba is knowledgeful and the Truth that's why I only like to listen to Him or someone I know relates what He has said. Something He has said that I did not know, or something new He has said. I honestly disbelieve answer may come from any other place.

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Post by john » 03 Sep 2006

Andrey wrote:If you think you are more clever, then, please, explain to others. If you feel inferiour then ask.

I feel none of these. I just love to discuss points of knowledge and have a deep desire to find truth beyond PR.
personally think that only ShivBaba is knowledgefull and the truth that's why I only like to listen to Him or someone I know relates what He has told. I honestly disbelieve answer will may come from any other place.

Maybe you will be better off in a forum where only PBKs post, do a lot of back patting and sympathise for the poor lost souls not sharing your views.

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Post by andrey » 03 Sep 2006

Dear brother,

I dream for a world where we won't have to seek behind the curtain or dig for hidden agenda. I dream for a world where there is no separation and no one needs compassion.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Sep 2006

Its a darna point really Andrey and you ought examine it. For newcomers, this issue goes back to the beginning of this Forum where Andrey used to club everyone over the head with endless and mostly irrevelent Murli points. There is nothing wrong with short relevent ones and John makes a valuable point. How often do we say, "I don't know". Unfortunately Baba does not answer everything and we have to work out stuff for ourselves, especially in practical situations where he does not have the experience, and we don't know. is not it? No sin in that. It is just being human.

Andrey, I think you are at a disadvantage because you do not and have not lived in or near a centre with other Brahmins - and refuse to accept any necessity to go on teacher training course or learn from senior's experience. Of course, you do not accept this because "it does not say so in the Murli" ... probably. I don't know. PBKs, what is Virendra Dev Dixit advice on living close to or with a centre? I think Baba does strongly. He is always criticising the Sanyasis, saying this is a household path, and sure that must been the Brahmin [BK and PBK] Sanyasis, is not it? To be honest, Andrey think that you are sitting at home practising clubbing yourself, or at least your rational doubts at least, on the head first and then coming here to try it on ours. How else do we study Darna?

In centres, you get Brahmins known as "Murli bores". Everyone avoids them. Most Brahmins go through a phase of being a "Murli bore" on their evolution as a Brahmin but give it up quickly either because it isolates them, or it is bad for service. They are good for checking facts with. But ultimately, it shows no interest in the other person, no questioning to see if you are understanding that why are saying, no taking the pulse correctly

Showing interest, question first, is far better darna or seva. Never mind being "interested", what about being "interesting", funny or even just entertaining. In my experience, about nine questions to even one Murli nail in the head is about the right or best ratio you will get. The best seva, like the best charity, is the seva done incognito; serving another in a manner that the other does not even know they have been serviced. Does that seem unreasonable?

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Post by atma » 04 Sep 2006

Bhai's,

One has to understand Murlis and Avyakt Vani points are necessary. Otherwise How would the pbk's have found Baba(Virendra Dev Dixit)?

It certainly wouldn't be advertise and Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) is so ordinary that you would not recognize him so the Murli points are needed to understand this. Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) even asks the pbk's to pay more attention to the Murlis then him. But the unique this is the two are necessary.

atma

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Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Sep 2006

atma wrote:One has to understand Murlis and Avyakt Vani points are necessary.
I am sure we all agree atma. But there is a difference between using one accurate Murli point like a surgeon's knife and using 20 Murli points like a big hammer.

There is a Sanskar we all have from Bhakti that we need to protect ourselves from, of starting on one jewel of knowledge and drifting off to another 20. Like the Pundits that stand up to talk for 4 hours ... Babs says, be merciful! John makes a point here about 'relevance' and the "I don't know" stage of humility. Sometimes it is better to say, I just don't know ... but will go and ask.

It is good darna to watch or listen to the person you are talking to, very carefully, to see signs of boredom, tiredness or resistance creeping in. Better to leave them a little hungry so that they come back for more, rather than attempt to forcefeed them everything. Hard to do over the internet. Better to ask for clarification of the question before speaking. It is an art.

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Post by andrey » 04 Sep 2006

dear brother
Is it nessesary that all agree? Baba says out of 100000 only one will come up. We are used to "the majority" factor, but just the contrary is true. Let me be the boring one with Murli points. It is not to please someone.

Leaving the home and familly in limited and unlimited way is exactly the sanyasi way. We are just ordinary, live ordinarily, meet ordinary people, face ordinary situations and become strong. Is it incognito to see white clothes, badges, special behaviour, community system, hierarchy?

You just continue with your teachers training. Hey, one God in the form of Teacher has come. Who else will teach? Whatever you speak as good advices, please, show in practical yourself. Humble intellect will be the one to create the new.

We just buzz knowledge, yes we feel the pulse, but what did you felt feeling the pulse? Wah, great, OK, full health!!! Was this the condition? We are all dead corpses I suppose - spiritually - in efforts - in all four subjects.

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Post by bansy » 04 Sep 2006

One has to understand Murlis and Avyakt Vani points are necessary.
This is very important point. Full stop.

One also needs to be able to explain and apply those points in a PRACTICAL WAY. Full stop.

Knowledge without application (dharna) is irrelevant knowledge. Equate a Murli point with a practical example, the meaning is uncovered. Drilling points give no clarity. Hence we are told to churn the Murli. The butter becomes thick as we churn but if we don't know how to taste it's essence, it is sour. Sometimes the churning is hard, the spoon is stuck, so ask or give it up for another time. Plenty of butter to churn. If you know how to churn, show others how to, too.

A simple but not exact science comparison :
Pure and applied maths. My maths teacher teaches me that 2 + 3 = 5. However, there are 2 apples on the table and 3 oranges on another, but I do not know how many fruits. Worse, I do not know what a fruit is. I even do not know what an apple is. Nor an orange. So 2 + 3 = 5 has no concept, yet I get the answer right at school. So I am good at maths, right ?

But spirituality is not always about simple logic. It is metaphysical concepts, feelings, heart and mind, soul. But when we can explain spirituality in a practical way, then the answer comes. Enlightenment ? And possibly even the "truth".

Father has given the treasures. You can hide yours. You can share yours. Or you can show yours first and others will ask how you get them. You don't need to tell others where to get them, they will ask until they are sure it feels genuine (to them). A diamond salesman needs not do anything to sell. The diamond sells itself. But the salesman is there for support on information the customer needs, who may come back, or he may never return. But when the customer is happy, they'll go to the suppliers directly to also thank them. And the supplier, salesman and customer are all happy.

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Post by atma » 04 Sep 2006

Bhai Arjuna,

You mentioned the following.
I came to know some interesting anecdotes from some PBK mothers while travelling with them in a car from one town to another. I will relate the same when there is a discussion on such topics.
Can you share some more on this?

atma

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Post by arjun » 04 Sep 2006

Dear brother, Om Shanti. I cannot share the stories immediately as I need to confirm from Baba once because these stories involve the BKs also.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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