POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

DEDICATED to PBKs.
For PBKs who are affiliated to AIVV, and supporting 'Advanced Knowledge'.
mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 23 Sep 2009

Possibility No. 01) A pbk mentioned the following Murli point to me saying that Brahma and Prajapita Brahma are different personalities.

Inka naam Brahma rakha hai.MUJHE BRAHMA ZAROOR CHAHIYE. TOH PRAJAPITA BRAHMA BHI CHAHIYE. Jinme pravesh karke aavoon. Nahi toh kaise aavoon?" -Mu 15.11.87

= Name of this is kept Brahma. I definitely need Brahma. So I also need Prajapita Brahma in whom I come by entering. Else how can I come? (translation done by mbbhat).


From the above he argued that Brahma and Prajapita Brahma are different personalities. But when I asked him, does Baba need two bodies to enter? What is the significance of the last sentence- Else how can I come, he could not reply. [any pbk or anybody here is welcome to reply].
----
This Murli point was difficult for me to digest. But the last sentence was showing to me that PBKs were in hurry in coming to conclusion.

Recently I got a Murli point which closely resembles to the above.

SM 18-11-77(3):- Krishn ne 84 janm liye. Unkey hee antim janm may maine pravesh kiyaa hai. Inkaa naam Brahma rakhaa hai. MUJHE BRAAHMAN ZAROOR CHAHIYE. TO PRAJAPITA BRAHMA BHI CHAHIYE NA. Unmey aakar pravesh kartaa hun. -118

= Krishn took 84 births. I have entered during the last birth of him. Name of this is kept as Brahma. I definitely need Braahmins. So I need Prajapita Brahma also, is it not? I come and and enter in that.


See the small difference between Brahma and Braahman (= Braamin). So I feel there is posibility of typing mistake. That is- it should/may be Braahman and not Brahma in the second sentence of the Murli point mentioned by the pbk.

I searched for the older version of the Murli dated 15-11- 87. [Because 15-11-87 means close to 15-11-77 which is close to 18-11-77], but could not get.

If PBKs have the older versions of 15-11-87 it is better to see it.

I also request PBKs to mention the essence of that Murli (15-11-87), if they have so that I can compare that with Murlis I have to get the older version.

Thanks to all PBKs.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11593
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by arjun » 24 Sep 2009

Here is Murli point which shows how Brahma and Prajapita are different:
"Tum bachhon ko paigaam bhi sabko dena hai. Aeroplane say bhi parchey giraaney liye koshish karni chaahiye. Usmay likho ShivBaba aisey kahtey hain. Brahma bhi ShivBaba ka bachha hai. Prajapita hai toh vah bhi baap, yah bhi baap. ShivBaba kahney say bhi bahut bachhon ko prem kay aansoo aa jaatey hain. Kabhi dekha nahi hai. Likhtey hain Baba kab aakar aapsey milengey, Baba bandhan say chudaao." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 21.7.05, page 4)

"You children must give the message to everyone. Efforts must also be made to drop pamphlets from the aeroplane. Write in it that ShivBaba says like this. Brahma is also a child of ShivBaba. Prajapita - He is also Father, this (Brahma) is also Father. Tears of love roll down the eyes of many children even if they just utter ShivBaba. They have never seen (Baba). They write, 'Baba, when will we come and meet you? Baba, please liberate us from bondages.' " (Revised Sakar Murli dated 21.07.05, page 4 published by BKs)

And there is another point which shows the importance of Prajapita Brahma. You say that PBKs don't read the Murli completely or quote small lines. But this is a big paragraph from a Sakar Murli:

"Parmatma ke liye hee gaayan hai – Hey patit-paavan, aatey bhi hain patit duniya aur patit shareeer may. Patit shareeer ka naam hai Prajapita Brahma. Ismay pravesh kar kahtey hain mai bahut janmon kay anth vaaley saadhaaran manushya tan may pravesh kartaa hoon. Sookshmavatanvaasi sampoorna Brahma may nahee aatey hain. Khud kahtey hain inkay bahut janmon ke anth ke janma may aata hoon. Bahut janma letey hee hain Raadhey-Krishna. Unkay bahut janmon kay anth ka janma saadhaaran hai. Aisey toh kahtey nahee hain ki mai paavan shareeer may pravesh kartaa hoon. Bhagwaanuwaach mai saadhaaran tan may aata hoon. Ab Bhagwaan jaroor aakarke is saadhaaran tan dwara aatmaon ko baith samjhaatey hain ki mai Parampita Parmatma hoon. Mai Krishna kee aatma nahee hoon, na Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar kee aatma hoon. Mai Parampita Parmatma hoon, jisko Shiv Parmaatmaay namah kahaa jaataa hai. Mai ismay aaya hoon. Mai sookshmavatan vasi Brahma may pravesh nahee kartaa hoon. Mujhey toh yahaan patiton ko paavan banana hai. Merey dwara hee vah sookshmavatan vasi Brahma paavan banaa hai, isliye unko sookshma may dikhaya hai.....Bhagwaan oonch tey oonch niraakaar ShivBaba hai. Varsa deney ke liye jaroor Brahma tan may aayega. Yah Prajapita Brahma hai, sookshmavatanvaasi Brahma ko Prajapita nahee kahengey. Vahaan thodey hee praja rachengey. Ham Brahmakumar kumariyaan saakaar may hain toh Prajapita Brahma bhi saakaar may hain. Yah raaz aakar samjho. Ham is Dada ko Bhagwaan nahee kahtey. ... Yahaan koi paavan hai nahee. Trimurti Shiv ke badley Trimurti Brahma kah diya hai. Parantu Trimurti Brahma ka koi arth nahee hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 24.11.07, pg 1&2)

“It is famous only for the Supreme Soul: O purifier of the sinful ones. He even comes in a sinful world and a sinful body. The name of the sinful body is Prajapita Brahma. He enters in this one and says: I enter in an ordinary human body of the last one of many births. He does not come in the complete Brahma who is a Subtle Region dweller. He Himself says: I come in the last one of their many births. It is Radha and Krishna who take many births. The last one of their many births is ordinary. He does not say – I enter in a pure body. God said: I enter in an ordinary body. Well, God certainly comes and explains to the souls through this ordinary body: I am the Supreme Father Supreme Soul. I am not the soul of Krishna, nor am I the soul of Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar. I am the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, the one who is called ‘Shiv Parmaatmaay namah”. I have come in this one. I don’t enter in the Subtle Region dweller Brahma. I have to come and purify the sinful ones here. It is through me that the Subtle Region dweller Brahma has become pure. This is why he has been shown in a subtle form........The highest on high incorporeal ShivBaba is God. In order to give the inheritance He will certainly come in the body of Brahma. This is Prajapita Brahma; the Subtle Region dweller Brahma will not be called Prajapita. The subjects (praja) will not be created there? We Brahmakumar-kumaris are in corporeal form; so Prajapita Brahma is also in corporeal form. Come and understand this secret. We do not call this Dada God. ...... Nobody is pure here. Instead of Trimurti Shiv they have mentioned Trimurti Brahma. But there is no meaning of Trimurti Brahma.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 24.11.07, pg 1&2 published by BKs)

Please explain the last underlined line in the above quote which says that when BKs are in corporeal form Prajapita Brahma should also be in a corporeal form. But there is no Prajapita Brahma in the BK world since 1969.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11593
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by arjun » 24 Sep 2009

From the above he argued that Brahma and Prajapita Brahma are different personalities. But when I asked him, does Baba need two bodies to enter? What is the significance of the last sentence- Else how can I come, he could not reply. [any PBK or anybody here is welcome to reply].
Yes, Baba needs two bodies. One as a temporary Chariot, mother and the other as the appointed Chariot (mukarrar rath), Father.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 25 Sep 2009

arjun wrote:Here is Murli point which shows how Brahma and Prajapita are different:
"Tum bachhon ko paigaam bhi sabko dena hai. Aeroplane say bhi parchey giraaney liye koshish karni chaahiye. Usmay likho ShivBaba aisey kahtey hain. Brahma bhi ShivBaba ka bachha hai. Prajapita hai toh vah bhi baap, yah bhi baap. ShivBaba kahney say bhi bahut bachhon ko prem kay aansoo aa jaatey hain. Kabhi dekha nahi hai. Likhtey hain Baba kab aakar aapsey milengey, Baba bandhan say chudaao." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 21.7.05, page 4)

"You children must give the message to everyone. Efforts must also be made to drop pamphlets from the aeroplane. Write in it that ShivBaba says like this. Brahma is also a child of ShivBaba. Prajapita - He is also Father, this (Brahma) is also Father. Tears of love roll down the eyes of many children even if they just utter ShivBaba. They have never seen (Baba). They write, 'Baba, when will we come and meet you? Baba, please liberate us from bondages.' " (Revised Sakar Murli dated 21.07.05, page 4 published by BKs)
Here also I feel the postion of full stop is different. That is- the above Murli point should be

"Tum bachhon ko paigaam bhi sabko dena hai. Aeroplane say bhi parchey giraaney liye koshish karni chaahiye. Usmay likho ShivBaba aisey kahtey hain. Brahma bhi ShivBaba ka bachha hai, Prajapita hai. Toh vah bhi baap, yah bhi baap. ShivBaba kahney say bhi bahut bachhon ko prem kay aansoo aa jaatey hain. Kabhi dekha nahi hai. Likhtey hain Baba kab aakar aapsey milengey, Baba bandhan say chudaao." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 21.7.05, page 4)

"You children must give the message to everyone. Efforts must also be made to drop pamphlets from the aeroplane. Write in it that ShivBaba says like this. Brahma is also a child of ShivBaba, Prajapita. He(ShivBaba) is also Father, this (Brahma) is also Father. Tears of love roll down the eyes of many children even if they just utter ShivBaba. They have never seen (Baba). They write, 'Baba, when will we come and meet you? Baba, please liberate us from bondages.' " (Revised Sakar Murli dated 21.07.05, page 4 published by BKs)
[/quote]

So here Baba says the two fathers are ShivBaba and Brahma(= Prajapita). This does not imply Prajapita is different than Brahma.

I FEEL THIS IS THE REASON WHY BABA SAYS, HEARING Murli BY TAPERECORDER IS BETTER THAN READING Murli. BECAUSE 1)There will not be any typing mistakes here. 2)the position of full stop can be understood more accurately.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 25 Sep 2009

arjun wrote:Yes, Baba needs two bodies. One as a temporary Chariot, mother and the other as the appointed Chariot (mukarrar rath), Father.
Is there any Murli point that says- I need two chariots?

Where is it said- temporary Chariot is mother and permanent Chariot is Father?
Arjun wrote- Brahma is also a child of ShivBaba. Prajapita - He is also Father, this (Brahma) is also Father.
Do you agree Brahma is Father?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11593
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by arjun » 25 Sep 2009

mbbhat wrote:Here also I feel the postion of full stop is different. That is- the above Murli point should be
I FEEL THIS IS THE REASON WHY Baba SAYS, HEARING Murli BY TAPERECORDER IS BETTER THAN READING Murli. BECAUSE 1)There will not be any typing mistakes here. 2)the position of full stop can be understood more accurately.
Dear brother,
I have reproduced Hindi Murli as it was published by the BKs with all the full stops and commas as mentioned by them. Now if you try to insert commas, full stops according to your own thinking, then I think BKWSU should hand over the task of editing (the already manipulated) Murlis to you. This is why we (and many ex-BKs) say that BKWSU should provide the original unedited Audio and printed versions of the Sakar Murlis narrated by Shiva through Brahma Baba. I am sorry I cannot accept the insertion of commas and fullstops by you in the above Murli to suit your own interpretation.
Is there any Murli point that says- I need two chariots?
There is no single sentence in any Murli which says I need two chariots, but there are several Murlis which speak of the temporary Chariot and the appointed Chariot.
Where is it said- temporary Chariot is mother and permanent Chariot is Father?
It is said in the Murlis about Brahma that he is my long boot, he is my wife, I have taken this body on loan, this is my rented house, eat halua even if the mother dies, Brahma is the badi ma (senior/elder mother).
When compared to the temporary Chariot, the appointed Chariot is the Father.
Do you agree Brahma is Father?
He was only a titleholder. In reality he was a mother (Brahma - badi ma)

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4338
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by shivsena » 25 Sep 2009

arjun wrote: Yes, Baba needs two bodies. One as a temporary Chariot, mother and the other as the appointed Chariot (mukarrar rath), Father.
Dear arjun Bhai.

The teachings of advance knowledge that Shiva requires two chariots directly contra-dicts the Murli point which states "I come only once in 5000 years in Bharat". and another Murli point which states that "Kalpa-Kalpa-Kalpa ke anth ke sangamyuge mein main aata hun". (this point again has been wrongly explained in advance knowledge)

shivsena.

new knowledge
Academic
Posts: 463
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: questioning bk-pbk knowledge

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by new knowledge » 25 Sep 2009

shivsena wrote:"Kalpa-Kalpa-Kalpa ke...."
O no! It's Kalpa-Kalpa, Kalpa ke...."

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 25 Sep 2009

arjun wrote:1)I have reproduced Hindi Murli as it was published by the BKs with all the full stops and commas as mentioned by them.

2) This is why we (and many ex-BKs) say that BKWSU should provide the original unedited Audio and printed versions of the Sakar Murlis narrated by Shiva through Brahma Baba.

3) I am sorry I cannot accept the insertion of commas and fullstops by you in the above Murli to suit your own interpretation.
1)So do you believe all the Murlis published by BKs are correct? If not, don't you think it is your(or the reader's) responsibility to check for truth?

2)Which Murli says to do so? When PBKs say Sevakram Yagya children(BKs) orphans, I do not think they have any right to ask for the Murlis. Even ex BKs do not have any right if they wish to act with body consciousness. [Murli point- never become bodyconscious. An Avyakt Murli point aslo says- DO NOT DEMAND JUSTICE EVEN AT GOD'S PLACE. THEY ARE ALSO BEGGARS.].

3)I have not asked you to accept.
There is no single sentence in any Murli which says I need two chariots, but there are several Murlis which speak of the temporary Chariot and the appointed Chariot.
But there are many Murli points which say Brahma is temporary Chariot and also permanent(mukrar ) Chariot. Is there any Murli point which says temporary Chariot is not permanent Chariot?
He was only a titleholder. In reality he was a mother (Brahma - badi ma)
Do you have any Murli point that says- Brahma is just title holder?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11593
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by arjun » 25 Sep 2009

mbbhat wrote:So do you believe all the Murlis published by BKs are correct? If not, don't you think it is your(or the reader's) responsibility to check for truth?
No. We don't believe all the Murlis published by the BKs are correct. They have been edited a lot for the convenience of those at the helm of affairs in BKWSU. How can we check the truth if BKWSU does not provide the original audio recordings of the Murlis or original Sakar Murlis published during the lifetime of Brahma Baba?
2)Which Murli says to do so? When PBKs say Sevakram Yagya children(BKs) orphans, I do not think they have any right to ask for the Murlis. Even ex BKs do not have any right if they wish to act with body consciousness. [Murli point- never become bodyconscious. An Avyakt Murli point aslo says- DO NOT DEMAND JUSTICE EVEN AT GOD'S PLACE. THEY ARE ALSO BEGGARS.].
You keep addressing everyone as soul. But you wish to brand all PBKs as body conscious people and you want them and the ex-BKs to be deprived of original Murlis. I am unable to understand your method of soul consciousness.
DO NOT DEMAND JUSTICE EVEN AT GOD'S PLACE. THEY ARE ALSO BEGGARS
Can you quote this AV or at least its date?
But there are many Murli points which say Brahma is temporary Chariot and also permanent(mukrar ) Chariot. Is there any Murli point which says temporary Chariot is not permanent Chariot?
How can a temporary Chariot be a permanent/appointed Chariot? I don't see any logic in your statement.
Do you have any Murli point that says- Brahma is just title holder?
I have already quoted a Murli point which says that when BKs are in corporeal form Prajapita should also be in a corporeal form. When Brahma Baba left the Yagya without accomplishing the task of world transformation, how can he get the title of Prajapita Brahma?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 25 Sep 2009

arjun wrote:1)And there is another point which shows the importance of Prajapita Brahma. You say that PBKs don't read the Murli completely or quote small lines. But this is a big paragraph from a Sakar Murli:

2)The name of the sinful body is Prajapita Brahma.

3)He does not come in the complete Brahma who is a Subtle Region dweller.
I don’t enter in the Subtle Region dweller Brahma. I have to come and purify the sinful ones here. It is through me that the Subtle Region dweller Brahma has become pure. This is why he has been shown in a subtle form.....The highest on high incorporeal ShivBaba is God. In order to give the inheritance He will certainly come in the body of Brahma. This is Prajapita Brahma; the Subtle Region dweller Brahma will not be called Prajapita. The subjects (praja) will not be created there? We Brahmakumar-Kumaris are in corporeal form;


4)so Prajapita Brahma is also in corporeal form. Come and understand this secret.
We do not call this Dada God. ... Nobody is pure here. Instead of Trimurti Shiv they have mentioned Trimurti Brahma. But there is no meaning of Trimurti Brahma.”
(Revised Sakar Murli dated 24.11.07, pg 1&2 published by BKs)

5)Please explain the last underlined line in the above quote which says that when BKs are in corporeal form Prajapita Brahma should also be in a corporeal form. But there is no Prajapita Brahma in the BK world since 1969.
1) Who has said- we (BKs) do not give importance to Prajapita Brahma? Aslo see the following Murli point.

SM 24-9-73(3):- Sthaapnaa karnevaalaa hai Parampita Paramatma- IS BRAHMA DWARA. Yah bhi Baba ne samjhaayaa hai sookshmvatanvaasi ko Prajapita nahin kahenge. Vahaan Praja hoti nahin. Toh zaroor Prajapita Brahma yahaan hoga. Vah hee phir Avyakt sampoorn banega. Vah toh hai Avyakt. Zaroor vyakt bhi chaahiye jo phir Avyakt hona hai. Donon abhi dikhaayi padte hain. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA YAHAAN BHI HAI TOH SOOKSHMVATAN MAY BHI HAI. Prajapita toh zaroor yahaan chaahiye. Zaroor Prajapita Brahma ke bachche bhi yahaan hee hain. Tum sabko kah sakte ho Prajapita jo vyakt hai vahee phir Avyakt hona chahiye.

= The one who creates is Supreme Godfather-through THIS Brahma. Baba has also explained that the subtle Brahma cannot be called as Prajapita. There is no praja(citizen). So definitely Prajapita would be here. He only will then become complete. That is Avyakt(subtle). Definitely vyakt(corporeal) is also needed who will then become Avyakt. Both are seen now. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA IS HERE AS WELL AS IN Subtle Region. Prajapita should be here, definitely Prajapita Brahma’s children also would be here. You can tell all that the Prajapita who is corporeal himself will/should become subtle. -118
2)BKs say body of Dada Lekhraj is sinful.

3)Till 1969, ShivBaba did not used complete brahma. he used corporeal Brahma. Will you express your views to whom this complete brahma is referred and when to according to pbk philosophy?

4)who has mentioned Trimurti Brahma? Is it BK world or outside world? PBKs belive that all the teachings are just for BKs and PBKs!

Please note that outside people believe Brahma dwells is Subtle Region called Brahmalok. They believe that Brahma created universe by sitting there. But they also give him the name Prajapita. So Baba tries to say that- Oh dear children, how can I create by sitting there. I am incorporeal. i am purifier, I do not create a new world. I just purify the old world. So i have to incarnate in the impure world. so I will definitely get impure body, is it not? And this(Brahma+ DLraj) is that body.

In Bhaktimarg, word prajapita is used for Brahma. No where in Bhakti, it is said there is another Brahma who is not Prajapita ot son of Prajapita. So Baba uses the word Prajapita to teach the outside world people that- dear children, you say Prajapita, but Prajapita should be corporeal, right, hence Brahma should belong to impure world!

It is such a difficult task to make people understand about incarnation of God in impure body! Hence Baba repeatedly stresses the word Prajapita.

There are several Murli points which say Brahma is Prajapita, and Brahma is just one. They are also mentioned in the thread - Prajapita can be two souls, but Brahma is only one- in common room.

Dear soul,

please refer to the Murli point which says, the same corporeal Prajapita will become Avyakt.

5) the Murli point itself says, you can tell everyone that the same prajapita will become Avyakt. so there is no question of need of corporeal Prajapita after 1969! In fact, it would be wrong to say so!

Another thing is- you sometimes say that such and such Murli point is applicable for such and such periods. Then will you say how can you ask the above?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11593
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by arjun » 26 Sep 2009

mbbhat wrote:Dear soul,
I think when you have categorized all PBKs as thieves and goondas, it is better you address me as 'dear thief/goonda'. I will not mind. I will be happy if you speak the truth instead of showing false love for me in front of the world to show how soul conscious you are.

I am answering to your following queries so that you do not accuse me of running away. But if you continue to adopt double standards by calling PBKs as thieves, goondas, body conscious people on the one side and addressing them as 'dear souls, sweet souls' on the other hand, then I will have no choice but to stop responding to your queries. I cannot exchange views with masked people.
3)Till 1969, ShivBaba did not used complete Brahma. he used corporeal Brahma. Will you express your views to whom this complete Brahma is referred and when to according to PBK philosophy?
Complete Brahma refers to the complete stage of the corporeal Prajapita Brahma which will get revealed in the end. It does not refer to the subtle bodied Brahma. Had it been subtle-bodied Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) his temples would have been found all over the world or at least all over India. Moreover, Hindus do not worship subtle bodied deities or angels but corporeal deities. It is only the Christians, Muslims, etc. who believe in angels/subtle bodied deities.
4)who has mentioned Trimurti Brahma? Is it BK world or outside world? PBKs belive that all the teachings are just for BKs and PBKs!
Yes, the BKs may apply this point to the outside world. But its shooting/rehearsal takes place in the BK world itself. If you see the original old picture of Trimurti you will see that the face of Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) has been imposed on Brahma, Vishnu as well as Shankar to show that Dada Lekhraj plays all the three parts. But actually, all the three roles are played by different souls.
There are several Murli points which say Brahma is Prajapita, and Brahma is just one.
There are Murlis which say that Brahma can be the name of many but Prajapita is only one. There is also a point which says that in whichever body I enter, it will have to be named as Brahma.
So Baba uses the word Prajapita to teach the outside world people that- dear children, you say Prajapita, but Prajapita should be corporeal, right, hence Brahma should belong to impure world!
5) the Murli point itself says, you can tell everyone that the same prajapita will become Avyakt. so there is no question of need of corporeal Prajapita after 1969! In fact, it would be wrong to say so!
Where is this Prajapita now? Prajapita cannot be Subtle Region dweller according to the following Murli point:
"Sookshmavatanvasi Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar ko devataa kahtey hain. Aisey kahaan bhi likha hua nahee hai ki Prajapita Brahma sookshmavatan vaasi hai. Sookshmavatan may thodey hee praja hoti hai. Prajapita Brahma toh jaroor yahaan hee chaahiye. Oonch tay oonch ShivBaba fir second number may hai Brahma." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 30.10.07, pg 3)

“Subtle Region dwellers Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar are called deities. It has not been written anywhere that Prajapita is a Subtle Region dweller. There is no praja (subjects) in the Subtle Region. Prajapita Brahma is certainly required here. Highest on high is ShivBaba; then in the second number is Brahma.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 30.10.07, pg 3 published by BKs)

When BKs are asked to become Avyakt while being in a physical body, cannot the same rule be applied to Prajapita Brahma? Why does he need to leave the corporeal body to become Avyakt? When he has said that he will take everyone along with him, how can he leave in between?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 27 Sep 2009

arjun wrote: How can we check the truth if BKWSU does not provide the original audio recordings of the Murlis or original Sakar Murlis published during the lifetime of Brahma Baba?
Then, it is more wise to agree or to say- we still do not know truth. [I agree that I am not so sure about Shankar's part. but I do not mis interpret Murli points, like PBKs]. Arey- PBKs say PBKs give title Prajapita, Shankar, Krishna, Narayan, Ram, ShivBaba, still more titles for Mr. Dixit. Is this advance knowledge? I think advance knowledge also says- even Vishnu(face) is also mr. Dixt who controls other four hands. I do not know fully.
I am unable to understand your method of soul consciousness.
Here in the forum, I have said that I am also a fool. Dear soul, I consider myself as king and you also King. Nothing hurts me(some ripples may be there, that too temporarily). Since I consider you all as kings, I feel you also won't get confused/surprised/upset by the terms/words used here. Let us just enjoy. Try to get best from others. That is all. Already we are lucky(let it be BKs or PBKs), because we have got Godly knowledge.

[please note that I have never passed any personal comment on anyone here, except ex- l soul that too- just for reasoning. Still I am happy with that soul. Arey- in this drama all are actors. Where is the enemity!?].. In the beginning, many ex BKs have used highly bad words about me. i had taken all as game. [oh Baba- sorry for praising myself. It is all yours]

But sometimes to make the point more clear I use such words*.

One more thing- I belive PBKs are more stable than BKs. A bk gets more upset when he sees a pbk but pbk does not to that extent. So you are better/stable than me- dear!

Hello, dear soul,- should I say sorry to you for calling PBKs as goondas*? Dear soul- when PBKs call BKs as kouravas, I do not think it is necessary. Arey- let us enjoy life however, wherever we are!
Can you quote this AV or at least its date?
At present. i do not read any Avyakt Murlis. so it is not possible in near future, but I may try.
How can a temporary Chariot be a permanent/appointed Chariot? I don't see any logic in your statement.
Yes, I had expected your response would be like this.

When Baba says- permament, it implies that the Chariot is fixed for every Kalpa. That means Baba says, I cannot replace brahma in the next Kalpa. In ever Kalpa, I have to enter in this(Brahma) only.

When Baba says- temporary Chariot, it implies that I do not stay in this Chariot for the whole day, this body may also shed one day.

Dear soul,

How can any Chariot be permanent? A physical body can have maximum life of 150 years(approx). Then what is your logic?

I would like to know one more thing. In Murli, it is said- mukrar rath. I feel mukrar means fixed(not permanent or eternal). am I right? then from why do you use the word permanent?
When Brahma Baba left the Yagya without accomplishing the task of world transformation, how can he get the title of Prajapita Brahma?
[Body conscious people need support of body all the time. They need to remember even impure body in their Yoga. forget this statement]

How can you say Brahma Baba left Yagya? both BapDada come every year to meet children. Since Brahma Baba's corporeal part is finished, he has become subtle.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 27 Sep 2009

arjun wrote: I will be happy if you speak the truth instead of showing false love for me in front of the world to show how soul conscious you are.

I am answering to your following queries so that you do not accuse me of running away.

I cannot exchange views with masked people.
if you like, you can(or anybody) meet me. i will give you address.

Have I accused you or anybody personally so far?
Dear soul,

These all are not words of a KIng- a Rajyogi. Hey child of Baba- be in swamaan! [or if you are already, my salutes to you dear Sir]
Complete Brahma refers to the complete stage of the corporeal Prajapita Brahma which will get revealed in the end.

If you see the original old picture of Trimurti you will see that the face of Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) has been imposed on Brahma, Vishnu as well as Shankar to show that Dada Lekhraj plays all the three parts. But actually, all the three roles are played by different souls.
But according to my knowledge, PBKs say Prajapita Brahma is Dixit. Face of Vishnu is also dixit. Shankar is also Dixit. So does not that also say- three roles are played by single soul?

If complete Brahma refers to Mr. Dixit's soul,

then what is the significance of Murli point that say- I do not enter in complete brahma? Because it is said- when Brahma becomes complete, he becomes Avyakt.

Also what would be the period of this complete brahma? that is after Mr. dixit becoming complete how many years (or minutes or seconds) will he be in that stage? If he changes immediately from complete brahma into Vishnu(Narayan) in one second, why baba says- i do not come in complte Brahma?
There are Murlis which say that Brahma can be the name of many but Prajapita is only one. There is also a point which says that in whichever body I enter, it will have to be named as Brahma.
Have PBKs thought what is the logic here? [that is- why Baba says- in whichever body I enter, it will have to be named as Brahma. please give your reasoning if you like.

My reasoning- in Bhakti, people believe creation is through Brahma. Baba says, i need a body through whom i start creation. Hence the body in which i enter should be named as Brahma. Hence Dada Lekhraj is Brahma. Because for lowkik people, it was(still it is) very difficult to accept Dada Lekhraj as Brahma. So Baba teaches in Bhaktimarg may so that people can realize, Oh, yes, "god has to enter in an impure body and that person's name is brahma. So he should belong to this world.Through Brahma, braahmins are created, etc, etc. [People used to tear pictures during exhibition in initial days when they see Brahma(DLRaj)'s photo].

Now, if you say- in whichever body god enters should be named as Brahma, how many Brahmas are there? [Baba says- sometimes I enter in any child and give drushti( or speak Murli) for the benifit of the other soul]. So do you know how many such brahma's would be there?

Arey dear soul- God can be only one. If there are more, his importance is lost. If Brahma are more than one, why name brahma ki math(directions of Brahma) is famous? why brahmins are the highest?

one more thing, if there are so many brahmas, should not be there so many types of brahmins created by them? but why PBKs say just two types?
Where is this Prajapita now? Prajapita cannot be Subtle Region dweller according to the following Murli point:
"Sookshmavatanvasi Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar ko devataa kahtey hain. Aisey kahaan bhi likha hua nahee hai ki Prajapita Brahma sookshmavatan vaasi hai. Sookshmavatan may thodey hee praja hoti hai. Prajapita Brahma toh jaroor yahaan hee chaahiye. Oonch tay oonch ShivBaba fir second number may hai Brahma." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 30.10.07, pg 3)

This is already explained. Still more- There is necessity of corporeal body to give knowledge. hence Baba stressed, there is need of corporeal body. once the knowledge sits in intellect, just effort is to be done. Before, ball was in court of ShivBaba. his responsibility was more. Now, ball is in children's court. Hence he stressed that point.

If you like to attach to body, it is up to you.

One more thing- Is the temple of brahma in Ajmer yaadgaar (memory) of Dada Lehraj? Or is it of Mr. Dixit, or to which Brahma (among so many of pbk philosophy) or Prajapita?

When BKs are asked to become Avyakt while being in a physical body, cannot the same rule be applied to Prajapita Brahma? Why does he need to leave the corporeal body to become Avyakt? When he has said that he will take everyone along with him, how can he leave in between?
of course, it can be. but there is no need to be! body has limitation. Also baba has said- pratyakshata(revealtion) of shiv happens thorugh shivshaktis(children). till children attain their level of perfection, both shiv and Brahma will be gupt(incognito).

If I am not wrong- in Bhaktimarg, in almost all shiv temples, there will be khetra(temple) of shakti.

like ShivBaba is totally selfless, Brahma Baba also attained that stage and gave all responsibility to children.

Follow Father- A Father will give his responsibility to children and take vaanaprasth. If you say prajapita remains in corporeal state till end, it is a shame to him. it is as good as holding/desire of limited authority of Yagya. One who sacrifices even Godly power/status (like authority of Yagya) is a true sacrifice.

See the sacrifice of Mr. dixit! He wishes to have power till his last breath.

Arey- you say brahma left children! but again you believe Brahma comes in Dadi Gulzar!

Both shiv and Brahma are waiting for children to become pure.

one more thing- if Brahma would not had become avykat, the atmosphere in BKWSU would not get so elevated as now.

if you say- PBKs are doing Avyakt effort in vyakt body, can i see any one pbk who can accept my challenge as said before? You can pass this information to even Mr. Dixit.

In Golden Age, parents give property/responsibility to children. That sanskaar should be filled here- right! so- if prajapita remains in corporeal form, how these children would get experience of Kings?

you may say- in BKWSU, BKs depend on Dadis, Didis. but see rounak in BKWSU. How they organize public function/service! In fact, I feel it is in aivv , that PBKs are like slaves of Mr. dixit!

Thank you dear soul for being with me.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 27 Sep 2009

One great typing mistake Murli point:-

SM 30-6-73(3):- Moolvatan, sookshmvatan aur sthoolvatan. BRAAHMAN DWAARAA YAH BRAAHMAN PAIDAA HUYE. Phir yah devtaa, kshatruy, vaishy, shoodr banenge. -82

= .....These Braahmins got created through braahmins(not Brahma!!). ....
Arjun soul wrote:- 1)I have reproduced Hindi Murli as it was published by the BKs with all the full stops and commas as mentioned by them.

2)Now if you try to insert commas, full stops according to your own thinking, then I think BKWSU should hand over the task of editing (the already manipulated) Murlis to you.

3) This is why we (and many ex-BKs) say that BKWSU should provide the original unedited Audio and printed versions of the Sakar Murlis narrated by Shiva through Brahma Baba
1)Funny defending. We are here discussing to approach towards truth. You want to stay where you are and accuse somebody for that!

But I am very very happy to notice these mistakes. This shows how foolishness it is PBKs trying to prove the two personalities (brahma and prajapita) are different by the support of the above Murli points.


2)One more funny. But this is drama. Anybody is King. There is no boss except ShivBaba. But even he is detached.

3)There is a Murli point which is similar to:- murl maangne se pahley pavitrata ki pratigyaa karni hai. = one should take oath of purity before demanding Murli.

So those who demand these, should mention to what extent they have sacrificed lust. So PBKs and ex BKs should mention their stage. arey- those who gave divorce, what can they demand?

Beauty of drama is- pavitr buddhi may hee gyaan baith_taa hai= Knowledge sits only in pure intellect.

So unless one tries to become pure, how can these things help him? [that is the reason why even BKWSU people could not notice these mistakes done by themsleves].

Arey- it is pity to see you supporting even ex BKs for these things!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests