shivsena's theory is basically flawed

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shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 18 Jul 2009

Om Shanti. I generally don't start new topics very often. It has been many months since I started any new topic. But I am starting this one not to start any new discussion, but to bring on record basic flaws in shivsena's theory of Baba Dixit's body having being taken over by the soul of Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) and how he has changed his own stand within a short time.

On 8th of July, in one of the threads of this Section ("a list of questions to PBKs") while quoting shivsena Bhai's statement I wrote:
shivsena wrote:Baba dixit(no. 1 dehdhari ie Krishna)as playing the part of personified Ravan(kalaa part)

Suppose someone starts claiming that Michael Jackson's soul has taken over the body of US President Barrack Obama, and that now onwards MJ is the owner of the body of BO, will all the Court cases (if any) pending against MJ be transferred to Barrack Obama's name? Will everyone start addressing BO as MJ? :D

In response to this shivsena Bhai wrote on 9.7.09:
Dear arjun Bhai.

If MJ has left the body and has entered BO then it would be very easy to tell who is in charge of the body; If MJ's soul overpowers Obama's soul and he starts yelling music and starts dancing, instead of talking about administration of USA, then it can be very easily identified that MJ has taken over obama's body. The sanskars(characteristic) of the soul who empowers another body is self-evident.

Similarly, If PBKs claim that there are 3 souls in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit, then it can be very easily identified as to who is giving advance knowledge. If it was omnipotent supreme Shiva giving knowledge, then HE would have maintained unity and chadti kalaa of brahmins right from day one. If it was Ram's soul, then he would have also done exactly the same thing as Father Shiva as he is going to become like Shiva (Bap-samaan) and he would have made all souls like him, as it is said in Murlis that " Bap aakar aap-samaan banate hain". But since none of this has happened in Advance Party, it is very easy to deduct that it is Krishna(Bharat) who is in control of body of Virendra Dev Dixit, and who has to take himself and others in girti kalaa during brahma ki raat as per the Murli mahavakya: "Bharat giraa toh sab girae, Bharat ka uthaan toh vishwa(pbk) ka uthaan". It is so very simple and logical; just requires a deep study of Murlis and Vanis. :cool: ;-)

shivsena.


To this I responded with these words:
If you stand by your above statement as also your statement that Dada Lekhraj's soul is incharge of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit's body, then Dada Lekhraj's soul should have performed all those actions that it performed through its own body.

Brahma Baba allowed rakhis to be tied, Bhog to be offered, trance messengers were sent to bring messages, he brought up BKs like Princes and Princesses, built big buildings with as many comforts as possible for the children (while he himself lived in a hut), he allowed BK sisters to wear shorts and shirts while they were in Karachi, he allowed BK sisters to live alone at BK centers, allowed BKs to organize exhibitions, conferences, built museums, allowed himself and other BKs to be photographed, so on and so forth. But none of these has taken place ever since AIVV has been established in 1982-83 and AIVV continues to follow the Shrimat as far as possible. Then how can you say that Dada Lekhraj is the owner of the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit?
In response to this shivsena Bhai wrote on 13.07.09:
Dear arjun Bhai.

There is no possibility of any other soul being in charge of the body of Virendra Dev Dixit.

Murli says "Krishna ko ruhani Bap nahin kahenge", So this statement of Shiva proves that Krishna(elder brother) is playing the role through the present body, because when shiv and Ram become combined(ShivBaba), then they become ruhani Bap in future and will talk to ruhani children in future. At present Krishna is talking to jismani PBKs who are his brothers, and it is said in Murlis "Bhai se varsa nahin milta, varsa Bap se milta hai." [ "brother cannot give inheritance, inheritance is received from Father.] ;so it is obvious that since no pbk has received any sort of inheritance so far, then it is Krishna(elder brother) who is in charge of the present body and when Ram=shiv, then PBKs will receive inheritance numberwise.

shivsena.


I replied in the following manner:
You are trying to avoid the question that I have asked. You said that if MJ enters in BO, BO will act like MJ. But I have provided proofs that the soul of DL is not acting like DL when it is present in the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. So, how can you say that DL is incharge of the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit?
Then, shivsena Bhai wrote:
Dear arjun Bhai.

First of all your comparison was not apt and not related to knowledge in any way but then i realised the humour in it.
So thinking you cited a humourous example with your laughing icon, i then returned back the humour with a wink. So let put an end to it and return back to healthy discussion with Murli proofs only.

shivsena.
In response, I wrote:
You might be joking but I am not joking. I am serious and I have given a serious and apt example. I have also given you proofs that Lekhraj Kirpalani is not acting as Lekhraj Kirpalani through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. So, how can you say that Lekhraj Kirpalani is completely incharge of Baba Dixit's body and is misleading the PBKs? If you think you are joking then it only proves that it is you and not the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani who is misleading other souls.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 18 Jul 2009

In another thread " Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??"
shivsena wrote:PBKs think that Baba dixit is Ram's soul and i feel that once Ram has become karmatit farishta[detached from his body], then this body of Baba dixit belongs to Krishna and it is he who has invented the Advanced Knowledge (jhooti Gita). Shiv and Ram have nothing to do with Advanced Knowledge which is taking the PBKs in girti kalaa. I have said this repeatedly.
in response to shivsena's above statement I wrote on 17.07.09
You have so far cleverly avoided my question in another thread to your similar statement there. You said that if MJ enters the body of Barrack Obama then BO should act like MJ. But in case of Baba Dixit, although you believe that Lekhraj Kirpalani has taken over the body of Baba Dixit completely, you have not answered why Lekhraj Kirpalani is not acting like he did through his own body before 1969?
Why is he not providing luxurious life to PBKs like he provided to the BKs?
Why is he not allowing Bhog to be offered just as he used to offer through trance messengers before 1969?....so forth and so on (I have already written elsewhere about all that Lekhraj Kirpalani used to do before 1969, but is not doing through Baba Dixit's body).

This only proves that you do not stick to your statement and are defaming Baba Dixit just for the sake of cheap publicity.

Arjun
To which shivsena responded as follows:
Dear arjun Bhai.

The answer to your query is very simple.

When PBKs believe that Shiv can act as karan-karavanhaar through two bodies ie. karanhaar through Dada Lekhraj and karavanhaar through Baba dixit, then why cannot Krishna play the role of badi Maa and Maya through different bodies. The sanskars of Dada Lekhraj have nothing to do with his actions in Baba Dixit, it is the role(Maya) which he is playing decides how he has to play his part. Just as a good person can play the role of Ravan in lokik life perfectly, so also someone(Krishna) has to play the role of ishwariya form of Maya (mentioned in Vanis) to perfection. My difference with the PBKs lies in only one thought. PBKs (just as BKs) think that Maya is not personified and it is only the 5 vices in us that is Maya, but i feel that somebody has to play the role of personified Maya(ishwariya form of Maya) to test the BKs and PBKs to make them numberwise, and i do not see any other soul (out of the 3 souls in Baba Dixit) playing that part. This is the main point of argument and you say that i am just opposing Advanced Knowledge to defame Baba Dixit and to get cheap publicity. Only a person with cheap mentality will think that all those who are opposing Advanced Knowledge on this forum are doing so to get cheap publicity.
shivsena.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 18 Jul 2009

Please notice the change of statements by shivsena Bhai. First he wrote:
If MJ's soul overpowers Obama's soul and he starts yelling music and starts dancing, instead of talking about administration of USA, then it can be very easily identified that MJ has taken over obama's body. The sanskars(characteristic) of the soul who empowers another body is self-evident.
Similarly, If PBKs claim that there are 3 souls in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit, then it can be very easily identified as to who is giving Advanced Knowledge. If it was omnipotent supreme Shiva giving knowledge, then HE would have maintained unity and chadti kalaa of Brahmins right from day one. If it was Ram's soul, then he would have also done exactly the same thing as Father Shiva as he is going to become like Shiva (Bap-samaan) and he would have made all souls like him, as it is said in Murlis that " Bap aakar aap-samaan banate hain". But since none of this has happened in Advance Party, it is very easy to deduct that it is Krishna(Bharat) who is in control of body of Veerendra Dev Dixit....
The above statement clearly means that Dada Lekhraj should act like Dada Lekhraj through Baba Dixit's body.

But after a couple of days shivsena Bhai writes:
The sanskars of Dada Lekhraj have nothing to do with his actions in Baba Dixit, it is the role(Maya) which he is playing decides how he has to play his part. Just as a good person can play the role of Ravan in lokik life perfectly, so also someone(Krishna) has to play the role of ishwariya form of Maya (mentioned in Vanis) to perfection.
When I provided proofs as to how Dada Lekhraj is not acting like Dada Lekhraj through the body of Baba Dixit, shivsena Bhai has taken a U turn to say that the sanskars of Dada Lekhraj have nothing to do with his actions in Baba Dixit.

This shows that his theory of Dada Lekhraj having taken over the body of Baba Dixit is basically flawed. I have started this topic just for record sake because shivsena Bhai has changed some of his statements like this in the past and since he keeps writing volumes of his negative publicity against Baba Dixit and Advanced knowledge, it becomes difficult to trace his posts which prove his change of statements.

In the past he wrote that Ram ShivBaba will get revealed in 2010, but when I showed him his statements, he changed it saying RamShivbaba can get revealed anytime after 2010, which means the revelation can take place even in 2036 when the Confluence Age will end according to BKs and PBKs. So, that was another change of statement by shivsena Bhai. And he keeps writing day and night that the soul of Dada Lekhraj is speaking lies and changing statements through the body of Baba Dixit. The one who levels charges against others should first look at himself.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by shivsena » 19 Jul 2009

Dear arjun Bhai and pbk brothers.

I have never said that my theory is perfect nor do i claim that whatever i write on the forum is the truth (''Bap hai akela satya") and only HE speaks the truth and when HE speaks in future nobody in the world will have the power to oppose HIM ; it is the PBKs who claim that advance knowledge is clarification of Murlis by ShivBaba(not acknowledged by ShivBaba himself orally) and it is this belief of PBKs which i am challenging on the forum with the help of Murli and Vani points and i believe that my theory(inspite of its flaws) has given enough food for thought(Murli points) to PBKs to churn whether the advance knowledge is jhooti Gita or sacchi Gita. Whether PBKs accept it or not, does not bother me in any way because it has been said in Vanis "aap dete jaao, koi leva ya na leva yeh mat socho"; So irrespective of whether PBKs accept or reject my theory or find flaws i will keep on posting important Murli points as this exercise is helping me more than anybody else ; eversince i have started posting my views on the forum my study of Murlis and Vanis have increased manifold times and daily i am finding such points which i and most PBKs must have never read before.

So my request to all PBKs is very simple: Instead of wasting time on finding flaws in my incomplete theory, it would be better that they concentrate on the study of Murlis and Vanis and start making a directory of points under various headings like Maya, Ravan, Ram, Bharat, bharatwasis, Gyan and Bhakti, etc etc and come to their own conclusion whether or not advance Gyan is true Gita or not; the time spent in this study ("sara madaar padayee par hai") will only help them in future when there will be nothing but confusion in Advance Party.

shivsena.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 20 Jul 2009

Instead of wasting time on finding flaws in my incomplete theory
When you find flaws in others you expect others to praise it as quest for truth. And when others find faults in your theory, you say we are wasting time. Is this not a double standard?
And when you accept that your theory is incomplete, why do you keep criticizing the advanced knowledge day and night?

Everyone knows that half knowledge is always dangerous. And you want all the PBKs to leave advance knowledge on the basis of your incomplete knowledge. Is it wise to do so?

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by pbkindiana » 20 Jul 2009

shivsena wrote:
when there will be nothing but confusion in Advance Party.
only confused souls like you will leave Baba Dixit and have no regards for him. Moreover confused souls like you will "bite the hand that had given sustenance."

indie.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by shivsena » 21 Jul 2009

Dear arjun Bhai.

Just answer one simple question:
Does finding flaws in my theory make the advance knowledge flawless.

Always remember truth can never be criticised nor does it criticise any other theory. Sun's rays do not criticise the light from a generator saying that you have a weak light that cannot light the world.

By criticising my theory you have given importance to my theory(thanks for it) and proved to the sensible PBKs that advance knowledge is also a philosophy.(not the truth)

shivsena.
=============================================================

Dear indiana.

Can you explain what sort of sustenance did Baba dixit give to souls in last 20 years.
And if it was the sustenance of true Gita, then why did Maa leave Him ??? If wife and children receive true sustenance from the Father, then they can never leave him. Only a false knowledge compels the sensible children to leave the Father (who is just pretending to be the Father :"Krishna ko ruhani Bap nahi kahenge"); the confused ones stay behind as they do not have the power of discrimination to judge between true knowledge and false knowledge.

shivsena.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 21 Jul 2009

shivsena wrote:Just answer one simple question:
Does finding flaws in my theory make the Advanced Knowledge flawless.
A similar question to you - Does constant defamation of Baba Dixit and advanced knowledge make your theory true?
By criticising my theory you have given importance to my theory(thanks for it)
A similar analogy: By criticising the advanced knowledge you give importance to it (thanks for it).

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by bansy » 21 Jul 2009

By criticising my theory you have given importance to my theory(thanks for it)
By criticising the advanced knowledge you give importance to it (thanks for it).
If I don't criticise either theories does that make them both unimportant ? ;-) That's my theory :D Just joking, have a nice cool day, it's hot this year, in and out of forum.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by pbkindiana » 22 Jul 2009

shivsena wrote:
Only a false knowledge compels the sensible children to leave the Father (who is just pretending to be the Father :"Krishna ko ruhani Bap nahi kahenge");
When you came running to Baba Dixit, then the basic knowledge was false to you, then when your confuse mentality don't have the power of assimilation during your period with the pbk family, you abandoned Baba Dixit to embrace back the basic knowledge.Your unstable mentality leads you to have a wild goose chase.
the confused ones stay behind as they do not have the power of discrimination to judge between true knowledge and false knowledge.
Since you have the power of discrimination, have you attained sadgati? Does your so-called power of discrimination helps you to become sensible -- is the proof of you being sensible is to have remembrance with the soul of Ram in brahma baba's body when you don't know who is Ram's soul and whether He has already attained the 100% nirakari stage?

indie.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by shivsena » 22 Jul 2009

arjun wrote: A similar analogy: By criticising the advanced knowledge you give importance to it (thanks for it).
I give importance to opposing the beliefs of advance knowledge(with Murli points) just as PBKs take pride in opposing the beliefs of basic knowledge and this is inevitable as per drama, which is made in such a way that 16000 souls will oppose basic knowledge and 108 will oppose advance knowledge. Only the fearless(who take support of Murlis) to prove that advance knowledge is jhooti Gita will reach the top. This game has to be understood very clearly.

While reading your post, I am reminded of a saying in Bhakti marg: :Ek chalni ek sui se kah rahi hai, dekh tere mein ek ched hai" [meaning: a seive (with hundred small holes used to filter tea leaves) is telling a needle that you have a small hole"]

shivsena.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by shivsena » 22 Jul 2009

bansy wrote:
If I don't criticise either theories does that make them both unimportant ? ;-) That's my theory :D Just joking, have a nice cool day, it's hot this year, in and out of forum.
Dear bansy.
Things are going to be much hotter in future as the Murli says :"Ramvanshi aur ravanvanshi ki badi bhari yudh hai" [Ramvanshi = those who believe that Ramshivbaba is God of Gita and Ravanvanshi = those who believe that Ram is prajapta. They are going to have a big fight in future]

In the future mahabharat war there will be a war between the BKs(yadav) and PBKs(kaurav) and 108 pandav, and no soul will be allowed to be neutral as everyone will have to select sides and take part in it as per their intellect and then only the gates of heaven will be opened. [ Murli point:' Mahabari mahabharat is gateway to heaven"]

shivsena.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 22 Jul 2009

shivsena wrote:While reading your post, I am reminded of a saying in Bhakti marg: :Ek chalni ek sui se kah rahi hai, dekh tere mein ek ched hai" [meaning: a seive (with hundred small holes used to filter tea leaves) is telling a needle that you have a small hole"]
Earlier you used to just criticize others, now you have started praising yourself. The day is not far when you will declare yourself to be.... :D

I will not write anymore on this topic as you have deliberately chosen not to answer my simple question.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by shivsena » 22 Jul 2009

Dear arjun Bhai.

You think that my theory has many flaws, but i think that the whole advance knowledge is flawed(false-untruth) as the whole fabric of advance knowledge is woven around a wrong belief that "Ram is prajapita", which has never been mentioned in any of the Murlis. Murlis always mention that ''Ram is ShivBaba" and "Ram is parampita paramatma".

So let each pbk decide whether they want to believe ''Ram is prajapita'' or ''Ram is ShivBaba''.
shivsena.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 22 Jul 2009

Another example of shivsena Bhai's double standards:
As an excuse to avoid answering why Dada Lekhraj is not acing like Dada Lekhraj through the body of Baba Dixit shivsena Bhai said that it was an humourous episode.
shivsena wrote: I have already said that i answered to your humourous example in a humourous way and you want to make a issue of the whole humourous episode.
But the same person had minced no words to criticize Baba Dixit when some lighter moments from PBK discussion classes were posted on this forum.
shvisena wrote:In lokik worldly life humour is quite essential; but in Gyan marg it can be quite dangerous and mis-leading; one can get diverted from the main topic ie. knowing what is 'Alaf and Be'; Murli dated 27-7-2000 says " Gyan marg koi hansi-kudi ka marg nahin hai" (meaning that "in Godly knowledge there is no place for laughter and humour") ; also Murli dated 23-2-2000 says "hansi -majaak se bahut nuksan hota hai" (meaning that ' laughter and joking can cause much loss" ); the above Murli points clearly indicate that Godly knowledge has to be taken seriously as a subject and should be studied very attentively and churned deeply ; there is no place for any laughter and humour which may lead us away from the main issue of knowing the creator (Ramshivbaba) and his creation(Krishna baccha).
He banned Andrey Bhai from the forum accusing him of diverting from the main topic and now he is doing the same thing. Does he have any moral right to ban others for the same mistake that he himself commits?

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