Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

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cal
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Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by cal » 08 Mar 2008

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

I am still confused of the acurate meaning of "Sakar mein nirakar ko Yaad karo" (Remember the incororeal in the corporeal).

Also it is said that "Apne aap ko atma samjho aur baap ko Yaad karo" (understand/experience yourself as a soul and remember the Father). My personal experience is that when I am in the soul conscious state, that's it, there is nothing more to do. Remembering anything else is getting out of the soul conscious state.

Also it is said in the clarifications that "Yaad mane pyar" (remembrance means love).

So, having said all this, what is "Accurate Yaad ?" (true remembrance)

Om Shanti
Cal

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by suryavanshi » 08 Mar 2008

Dear Brother Cal,

This is interesting. I am in wonder since your questions are exactly similar to my questions about remembrance. When one is in a soul conscious state (swasthiti), there is no role of bringing anything "par" (foreign) in the mind.

I am not able to understand(or feel or experience) this Murli point which says " apne ko aatmaan samjho aur ek baap ko Yaad karo"( understand yourself as a soul and remember one Father). The first part of this sentence i.e. "apne ko aatmaan samjho" (understand yourself to be a soul) is OK but how does one remember "ek baap" (one Father) when one understands oneself as "aatmaan" (i.e. stable in soul conscious state). Soul conscious state is all about the self awareness.

I had started a exactly similar thread on this topic but have not received any convincing answer so far from any PBK. We need more churning to understand this Murli point.

Om Shanti.

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by andrey » 09 Mar 2008

We have to remember the Father, because we are lovers. The Father is the beloved, so he does not have to remember. It is said that there is only one star that is fixed and constant in his position. He is constant in faith. If he remembers he does in his own body. For the rest who are instable in faith, they need a connection for assurance like that, "I am a soul". But is this right. Yes, the Father is also a soul.

We are guided to reach the stage from the one who is the guide and who is in this stage. We have to reach satopradhan stage. If we had to remember only ourselves then we pass through all stages. If we remember our tamopradhan stage we will not progress. We have to remember the ever pure one for to become pure.

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by warrior » 09 Mar 2008

Method of remembrance as per the Murlis:

Anything, when seen in corporeal form, can be absorbed easily. The thing, which involves thinking through intellect, is absorbed late. Even here those who saw the corporeal medium (of God) in corporeal form feel remembrance to be very easy. (AV. 1-2-71 pg-2)

Everyone has to obtain inheritance from the Father directly. The more you remember the Father personally, the more inheritance you will get. (31-7-70. pg-1)

OK. What is Supreme Soul, whom you remember? You say that he’s in the form of imperishable flame. But it is not so. It’s wrong to remember an imperishable flame. The remembrance should be accurate isn’t it? Only gossips will not work. One should know accurately (9-5-71 pg-2)

Children ask, “How should we remember (Baba)? Many children get a doubt whether they should remember ShivBaba in Brahma’s body. Baba says that one should remember the soul. But the body also comes to the mind along with the soul. First body, then soul. Baba is sitting in this body. So the body will also come to the mind surely. (13-5-69 pg-1)

Those who remember Father above (in the Soul World) follow the path of worship because they do not know the occupation. They do not know his name, fame, country, and time. (14-10-68 pg-1)

If the knowledge is not fitted in the intellect completely, then one will not be able to do Yoga (i.e. remember Baba). (28-7-76 pg-3)

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by cal » 09 Mar 2008

andrey wrote: We have to remember the ever pure one for to become pure.
Dear Brother Andrey:

So, how is the actual Yaad (remembrance) performed? If one stabilizes in the (pre-requesite condition of) soul conscious state (which is timeless, nirsankalpi (thoughtless), unlimited etc ...) how is the next step (of remembrance) actually performed?

Om Shanti ... Cal

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by cal » 10 Mar 2008

warrior wrote:Method of remembrance as per the Murlis:

• (AV. 1-2-71 pg-2)
• (31-7-70. pg-1)
• (9-5-71 pg-2)
• (13-5-69 pg-1)
• (14-10-68 pg-1)
• 28-7-76 pg-3)
Dear Warrior:

Thanks for your input.
However, the question still remains, how is raja-Yoga actally performed? None of the Murli or A.V. quotes mentioned above has explicitly said that this is Raja Yoga. Which then brings up the next question, will Raja Yoga be learned by everyone (at least PBKs) or only by 108 souls who will be kings janma-janmantar (for several births). (I presume that praja [subjects] do not learn raja-Yoga).

If you have a Murli or A.V. mentioning explicitly how raja-Yoga is performed, please convey it to me.

Om Shanti - Cal

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by andrey » 10 Mar 2008

Dear brother Cal,

Who says soul-conscious stage is timeless and where is it said? How can it be timesless when we are to achieve it whilst we are in this world where there is time?

Maybe you are right, becuase if one reaches the soul-conscious stage then one does not have to remember any more, but till we are in the stage of practicing we have to remember and this is made easily like we remember anything else in our wordly life. In the Murli it is said that we make the easy difficult.

However, it seems you may have some newly-developed method with which you will become a king. Beware, because there is already one king present (shivsena), but you seem to resonate to his views so you may be frends and not enemies.

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by warrior » 10 Mar 2008

None of the Murli or A.V. quotes mentioned above has explicitly said that this is Raja Yoga.
Dear soul cal,
here are some Murli points to help with your churning:
No bodily human being can ever teach the knowledge of RajYoga or the journey of remembrance (Yaad ki yatra). (19.4.74, pg.1)

Until the Father comes, how can the method of RajYoga be known? (3.2.74)

When the time comes, the Father Himself comes and gives the knowledge. Human beings cannot give. Many such ascetics go out (to foreign countries). They say that we have come to teach the RajYoga of India. But they do not teach RajYoga, but just gossip. Truth is here. (15.5.73, pg.2,3)

No human being can teach RajYoga to any other human being.(16.5.73, pg.2,3)

You know that incorporeal Supreme Father Supreme Soul teaches us Yoga through this middleman Brahma or gets us souls engaged (with the Supreme Soul). He teaches us easy RajYoga. This is Godly Yoga. Remaining people who teach Yoga are human beings. Whatever Yoga the human beings teach, is wrong. They will take you towards downfall. Human beings show the way of downfall to fellow human beings on demoniacal advice. That's why it's called demoniacal Yoga. (22.4.72, pg.1)

Whosoever, other than the Father teaches Yoga, meet with downfall themselves, and cause the downfall of their followers too. The world became a heaven with the Yoga taught by the God, but became a hell with the Yoga taught by the human beings. None other can teach. If anyone acts in an opposite way, his intellect gets locked. (22.4.72, pg.3)

cal
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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by cal » 11 Mar 2008

No bodily human being can ever teach the knowledge of RajYoga or the journey of remembrance (Yaad ki yatra). (19.4.74, pg.1)

Dear Warrior:

The above mentioned Murli quote was very valuable in answering one of my question, because it connects "Yaad ki Yatra" with "Raja Yoga"

Thanks

OS - Cal

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by arjun » 11 Mar 2008

cal wrote:I am still confused of the acurate meaning of "Sakar mein nirakar ko Yaad karo" (Remember the incororeal in the corporeal). Also it is said that "Apne aap ko atma samjho aur baap ko Yaad karo" (understand/experience yourself as a soul and remember the Father). My personal experience is that when I am in the soul conscious state, that's it, there is nothing more to do. Remembering anything else is getting out of the soul conscious state. Also it is said in the clarifications that "Yaad mane pyar" (remembrance means love). So, having said all this, what is "Accurate Yaad ?" (true remembrance)
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. I do not see any conflict between all the three statements made by you. Since we have been habituated to remembering/observing souls within the body while considering ourselves to be souls within the bodies during Golden Age and Silver Age, and of observing bodies while considering ourselves to be a body during the Copper Age and Iron Age, it is natural that we have to lay the foundation for the Golden Age and Silver Age in the Confluence Age by remembering the incorporeal Supreme Soul within the corporeal while considering ourselves to be souls present within a body.

ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) repeatedly says that the thoughts of the Father (ShivBaba) will come to our mind only when we are soul concsious and my experience finds this to be true. Whenever I am in body consciousness, I cannot remember the Father.

As regards your statement about 'remembrance means love', this is also true. True love can be possible when both are in an equal stage. If we are souls within the bodies and if the incorporeal Supreme Soul is just a point of light, then there cannot be love between both, but when the incorporeal Supreme Soul comes in a body, we, as souls within bodies can remember Him easily as a soul within the body.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by cal » 11 Mar 2008

arjun wrote:ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) repeatedly says that the thoughts of the Father (ShivBaba) will come to our mind only when we are soul concsious and my experience finds this to be true. Whenever I am in body consciousness, I cannot remember the Father.
Dear Brother Arjun:

Soul conscious state a.k.a beej rupi (seed) state or nirakari state is a state of nirsankalpi (no thoughts). So if there are no thoughts in soul conscious state why bring a thought from outside (about any body)? because you are disturbing your soul conscious state.
suryavanshi wrote:This is interesting. I am in wonder since your questions are exactly similar to my questions about remembrance. When one is in a soul conscious state (swasthiti), there is no role of bringing anything "par" (foreign) in the mind.
Brother Arjun ... On reading the response of brother suryawanshi, one realizes that that we both have the same querry.

" Maa (mother) or mind (thoughts) is sakari (body conscious state) aur (and) bap (Father) or buddhi (intellect) is nirakari (soul conscious)"

OS
Cal

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by cal » 19 Mar 2008

suryavanshi wrote:I had started a exactly similar thread on this topic but have not received any convincing answer so far from any PBK.
Dear Suryawanshi Bhai:

I have reached the same conclusion as you have.

Om Shanti - Cal
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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by arjun » 19 Mar 2008

Dear brother cal,

Om Shanti. You may not be satisfied with the replies of different PBKs on this topic, but my humble suggestion would be that before you come to any conclusion based on the disccusions on this forum, you should obtain the opinion of Baba as well.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by suryavanshi » 19 Mar 2008

Dear Brother,

Om Shanti. Certainly, we should ask Baba about it but i also understand that we both would definitely get the same answer from Him about the accurate method of remembrance and still each soul would catch or have different perception of what He says (about remembrance here) because of influence of past births or other reasons. This difference in perception will be at a very subtle level numberwise in the beads of rudramala which are very closely located. The most accurate method of remembrance basically is different for each soul although Baba is one or God is One and truth is one. The most accurate method of remembrance is known to soul of Ram (one of the reason for him be to number one soul beacuse Murli says" Yaad se hi vikarma vinash hotein hain"). Then, it is known to seven dieties after Ram because again only first 8 dieties would be "pass with honor" (pass with honor = burnt all the sins of 63 births completely).

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Re: Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Post by shivsena » 21 Mar 2008

cal wrote:I am still confused of the acurate meaning of "Sakar mein nirakar ko Yaad karo" (Remember the incororeal in the corporeal).
Dear cal Bhai.

What i feel is, there can never be any accurate rememberence of ShivBaba during the shooting period of this subtle behad drama. BKs and PBKs are remembering bindi ShivBaba as per their individual beliefs. Some BKs remember bindishiv in Paramdham, some BKs remember bindishiv in the body of brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) and PBKs remember bindishiv in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit. I feel that all these forms of rememberences are not the accurate way to remember ShivBaba, as till today there is no objective way of assessing that sins are being incinerated by any of the above methods, and also because the BKs and PBKs instead of becoming divine and pure are going downhill as per the subtle shooting period of Copper and Iron Ages. Accurate rememberence means that you have to remember the practical form of ShivBaba who will make you divine and burn your sins. Bindi(in body or otherwise) is the theoritical form of ShivBaba and bindishiv cannot give power to any soul or burn anyone's sins.

So what is the practical form of ShivBaba??????

It has been said in Murlis "koto mein koi aur koi mein bhi koi birla mujhe yatharth riti jaankar Yaad karta hai"(meaning that one soul out of one crore soul can remember me in my true practical form). If you calculate properly then this figure comes to 108 souls only, who will know the practical form of ShivBaba (through churning the knowledge in Murlis) and will remember ShivBaba in that form. THAT PRACTICAL FORM OF ShivBaba IS THE 100% INCORPOREAL STAGE OF Ram'S SOUL, WHEN BOTH INCORPOREAL BINDISHIV AND 100% NIRAKARI STAGE OF Ram BECOMES ONE SINGLE ENTITY(ZERO AND ONE COMBINED) AND IS REVEALED AS PARAMPITA PARAMATMA, BHAGWAN, ISHWAR, GODFATHER IN FRONT OF THE PBK WORLD.

Also whatever Shiva says in Murlis is to be taken in the behad ka sense and not literally. By taking the literal meaning of Shiva's words we are completely missing the true meaning and hence the desired results are also not achieved.

Another e.g. of how Shiva's words are taken literally; Murli says that we have to keep our eyes open to remember the Father; so all BKs and PBKs keep their physical eyes open and remember bindi ShivBaba (completely ignorant about whether this is the accurate method of remembering or not); in reality what Shiva is trying to say is that you have to open the third eye (not physical eyes) of your intellect and first understand that the 100% nirakari stage of Ram is the practical form of ShivBaba and so remember Ramshivbaba in nirakari stage (not bindi ShivBaba) as in future Ramshivbaba gets all the titles of shivbindi and Ram becomes the living bap-teacher-Satguru and patit-pavan bap (sarva-shaktivan bap) who will liberate us from all bondage. (bindishiv has been here for 70 years and nobody is liberated from bondage yet); so in behad ka sense the meaning of Shiva's words change completely.

Again PBKs believe that accurate rememberance is "Sakar mein nirakar ko Yaad karo"; again if we take this literally than PBKs first emerge Ram's body (Virendra Dev Dixit) and then concentrate on his forehead and remember bindi ShivBaba (out of 3 bindis); but this method also has not been able to produce any result, as the whole pbk family is going downhill inspite of remembering Shiva; The words of Shiva are again to be interpreted in behad ka sense ie. when Krishna's soul becomes 100% saakari through the body of Virendra Dev Dixit and Ram becomes 100% nirakari through the same body, then you have to remember nirakari stage of Ramshivbaba (and not bindi) in the same body which now belongs to Krishna (sakaari bap prajapita).

This is how i remember Ramshivbaba (the practical form of bindi shiv).

shivsena.

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