Trimurti Shiva?

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Post by new knowledge » 22 Sep 2007

Lekhraj Brahma is also considered as Jagdamba & Vedanti as Bharatmata. But Jagdamba is viewed as superior to Bharatmata. But PBKs consider Vaishnav Devi (Vedanti) superior to Lekhraj Brahma. How's that?

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Post by arjun » 22 Sep 2007

new_knowledge wrote:But PBKs consider Vaishnav Devi (Vedanti) superior to Lekhraj Brahma. How's that?
Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani)'s role has been reduced by many years in corporeal form in the Confluence Age, while Vaishnav Devi remains till the end and her body gets transformed to kanchankaya (deity-like body). She gives birth to Lekhraj Kirpalani in the form of child Krishna. So, being one of the creators of Krishna, she is superior to Lekhraj Kirpalani. Moreover she displays balance of love and law, whereas Lekhraj Kirpalani displayed only love and some demoniac children took undue advantage of that love.

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Post by new knowledge » 23 Sep 2007

Arjunbhai, here we have 3 statements accepted by PBKs,
  • 1) Vedanti is superior to Lekhraj Kirpalani,
    2) Lekhraj Kirpalani is Jagdamba & Vedanti is Bharatmata &
    3) the title of Jagdamba is higher than that of Bharatmata.
Here if statements 2 & 3 are true, then first statement logically becomes contradictory. How's that?

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Trimurti Shiva?

Post by shivsena » 10 Jul 2010

In VCD 601 Baba Dixit teaches.

In reality, there are not three lions in the Trimurti. What is there? In reality there is one horse, there is one goat, and there is one lion. (Trimurti mein hai Ek ghoda...ek sher ...aur ek bakri.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear pbk brothers.

I have heard the above statement in vcds many times but i have never read it in any Murli.....can any pbk please quote the Murli date where this point is mentioned.

Baba dixit mentions many times about the horse-goat and lion in Trimurti.....but i have never understood who is the horse.....who is the goat.... and who is the lion in Trimurti.....can any pbk please clarify ''who is who'' in Trimurti.

shivsena.

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by arjun » 11 Jul 2010

As far as I remember Brahma is the horse, Vishnu is the goat and Shankar is the lion. If any PBK has heard any other clarification, they can correct me.

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by shivsena » 11 Jul 2010

arjun wrote:As far as I remember Brahma is the horse, Vishnu is the goat and Shankar is the lion.
Who is this Brahma ????....is it DL brahma or is it Jagdamba brahma !!!

Also if Vishnu(Vedanti) is goat, then please clarify how she becomes a goat.

Actually there should be a very clear-cut explanation of which soul is Horse--Goat and Lion in Trimurti and how / why is the soul designated as such.

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by shivsena » 12 Jul 2010

I just received the Murli point and date from a brother in email:
Murli 31-3-68 says: "court of arms mein Trimurti 3 sher dete hain. Vastav mein hai sher-bakri-ghoda."....the detailed explanation of the point is still pending.


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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by shivsena » 13 Jul 2010

Dear pbk brothers.

Presenting the answer of Trimurti shiv given by one of the members of the inforteam (incognito PBKs) who are doing service of advance knowledge.....whether this is the official version or is it the churning of a single soul, i do not have any idea.....all this shows that each soul understands even the clarifications as per his intellect and there is no uniformity of views.....so how can 108 be threaded together with advance knowledge when each have different views of knowledge.....this is my dillemma.
==================================

Dear Brother

If Baba couldn't give you a satisfactory answer, how can we do it? :) Our understanding is far behind his.

Here is how we understand these things:

Baba said in his clarification that the Ashok Pillar is one of the Trimurti memorials. The Pillar showing three lions is used as a symbol on notes, official papers and so on. So, it is not that it is a point from the Sakar Murli, but a point in the clarifications to the Sakar Murlis, here it especially about clarification of the Trimurti. So, Baba brought a new point saying that the Ashok's Pillar is a memorial of the Trimurti. Then, discussing things further he said that althouth there are three lions shown in the Pillar, it cannot be said that in the Trimurti all three roles have the quality of the lion, meaning it cannot be said that there are three lions in the Trimurti. Here, as far as we can understand these things, Baba is talking about the three roles within the Trimurti, not about any particular souls.
We know on the basis of the advanced clarifications of the Sakar Murlis that there are five souls playing the role of Brahma, the same five souls playing the role of Vishnu and three souls playing the role of Shankar. So, we have to distinguish between the role and the actor (soul) that is performing it, like in the theatre. One role can be played by more than one actor.

When we talk about the point you mentioned, we are talking about the role itself, not about actors. The role has its nature. So, Baba said that in the Trimurti, there cannot be three lions, but one horse, one goat and one lion. The role of Brahma is the role of the horse - the mind. The mind is the horse, it creates worlds through thinking, like the horse it runs, gallops and has a power of molding (turning right, left, ahead, back). Every souls playing the role of Brahma plays the role of the horse for Shiva. Then, the next one is the role of the lion - the role of Shankar. The specialty of lion is going ahead, challenging, and uttering roars of knolwedge.The lion devours its enemies. This is what has to take place through Shankar. And the third one is the role of Vishnu - the role of goat. The nature of goat is to follow obediently, no discussions, arguments and so on. By following paradise can be created. So, all the souls entering the part of Vishnu will play this role of goat numberwise.

So, to summerise there are three main roles in the Trimurti:

Brahma Shankar Vishnu (according to the right order mentioned in the Sakar Mrulis)

These three roles can be comapared to three animals becasue of the similarities between their natures. Each role is like a matrix/scenario for an actor to be followed, meaning each role has its requirements.

Horse Lion Goat (this was a new point brought by Baba in clarifications based on churning)

These three roles above are played by few souls. Each role played be various souls-actors numberwise will be performed in a bit different way as all souls are numberwise and all are different; but still the frame of the role is recognisable.

Brahma - Horse - five souls (Jagadamba, Prajapita, Krisha/Brahma, Om Radhe, Vaishnavi

Shankar - Prajapita/Ram; Krishna/Brahma; Shiva

Vishnu - the same five souls as in the case of the role of Brahma, but after transformation.


Hopefully this may be of any use for you.

Kind regards
IPT

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by nivi » 16 Jul 2010

Who is this Brahma ????....is it DL Brahma or is it Jagdamba Brahma !!!
Also if Vishnu(Vedanti) is goat, then please clarify how she becomes a goat.
Actually there should be a very clear-cut explanation of which soul is Horse--Goat and Lion in Trimurti and how / why is the soul designated as such.

Shivsena,

Have u heard of the Murli point "It is better to die, than to go on begging.." If it's begging of material things, intellectual things or even answers, it is still begging !!!
1) What we get without even asking is like 'Milk'. We can churn milk and get butter.
2) What we get with asking is like 'water'..Churning water gets us nothing.
3) What we ask with attack/force is like ' blood'..Nothing good comes from it.

Baba said in one Murli that "Baap gives us even without asking" and so we should really be self-sufficient..
Just imagine how much degraded we are if we have to even ask from others?? Baba gives us the full complete knowledge and clears all doubts..So why even bother with others..

The example of Muslim religion is given on how instead of working hard, the honest way they would steal, rob, fight and kill other through blood- shed to earn a livelihood. We can look at our own dharna's and see what kind of religion we belong to.

Nivi

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by shivsena » 18 Jul 2010

nivi wrote:
Baba said in one Murli that "Baap gives us even without asking" and so we should really be self-sufficient..
Dear nivi.

I have never heard such a Murli point...on the contrary it has been said that "Bap toh sabko ek jaisa Gyan(Sakar Murlis) dete hain, lekin bacche numberwar purusharth anusaar uss Gyan ko buddhi se dharan karte hain aur apna pad paate hain." ....the whole knowledge is hidden in Murlis and this Murli keeps on repeating every 5 years, so that even though one comes after 30-40-50 years one can go ahead of any senior bk or pbk by studying the Murlis and solving the riddle of "who is personified shivaba(ALAF)" ( Murli point: "7 din ka student bhi 25 saal wale se aage jaa sakta hai" )

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by ANU » 06 Nov 2010

nivi wrote:Shivsena, Have u heard of the Murli point "It is better to die, than to go on begging.." If it's begging of material things, intellectual things or even answers, it is still begging !!! 1) What we get without even asking is like 'Milk'. We can churn milk and get butter. 2) What we get with asking is like 'water'..Churning water gets us nothing. 3) What we ask with attack/force is like ' blood'..Nothing good comes from it.
Baba said in one Murli that "Baap gives us even without asking" and so we should really be self-sufficient..
Just imagine how much degraded we are if we have to even ask from others?? Baba gives us the full complete knowledge and clears all doubts..So why even bother with others..The example of Muslim religion is given on how instead of working hard, the honest way they would steal, rob, fight and kill other through blood- shed to earn a livelihood. We can look at our own dharna's and see what kind of religion we belong to.

Dear Nivi

In English "begging" and "asking questions" are not synonims. These two expressions have seperate meaning and should not be taken as the same. "Asking questions" is something natural for the inquisitive mind and if this were something wrong, the Supreme Teacher should never tell his students to base their understanding on "proof-pramaan". Finding proofs means to raise questions and searching for answers. Churning - that is finding new meanings, perspectives etc is also about asking questions and searching for answers. Finally, the way of the child is asking questions. This makes him grow and become independent.

There is a process of teaching that the Supreme Teacher conducts. What the benefit if the students are discourage to ask questions by the Teacher? Their minds become passive, imitative and dependent. If the child is discouraged by the parents to ask and search, he will never become creative and independent. He will always search for some authority who will tell him what to think. If by quating the point of begging you mean to spread the message that the Supreme Teacher wants us to sit in silence and don't raise any question, because we will turn out to be beggars, why do AIVV organise the discussion sessions with Baba? It is quite obvious that the Teacher there gives answers to questions - after being asked, not ouf of himself. This is the aim of discussions. It was even mentioned in clarifications that new points arise in discussion, not in regular classes. Why does the Teacher say that the children should churn and ask him to verify the results? This is an invitation to an open discussion and raising questions. Or is it the invitation to begging? The final evidence that as you said "Baba gives us the full complete knowledge and clears all doubts" is the absence of questions in a natural way, not by force. When the mind receives the full and complete knowledge it becomes peaceful. This is not the stage that the Brahmin family has achieved. I would say that the situation is opposite - confusions, doubts increase. People are falling in so called cognitive dissonance, becasue there is no consistency and clarity. It is not their fault. They only study and fight with cognitive limitations. They desire the truth, but not the truth declared. They desire the truth experienced deeply in them. Baba Virendra Dixit never hesitated to ask questions. His asking questions braught about some major changes. Allegedly, asking questions by the same soul braught about some violent changes at the very beginning of the Yagya? Why was it OK to ask questions and share doubts at that time, and why should the Teacher stop his followers to ask questions now? The Brahmin family is on the path of Bhakti, dear nivi. They are in complete darkness - this is what is being repeated in the classes. So, what is the weapon of the one in darkness? Asking questions, so that he could get out of it. Will you call asking sincere questions by those who desire light begging? There are sayings in the outside world: "Who asks questions makes efforts to wander less." "The end of your toungue is your guide." "Nothing wrong in asking questions as there are no stupid questions. There may be only stupid answers."

If Baba in AIVV called asking questions 'begging', why would he condemn BKs for prohibiting questions? Why would he condemn them in so many classes for being blind sheep who reject those who ask questions? This wouldn't make sense.

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by nivi » 07 Nov 2010

Dear Anu,

Let me just start by saying that the reason I called you "Sister Anu" is because in all my life I have only heard girls/ females called by this name. So naturally I assumed you are sister/female. But, I don't want to make a big deal out of this since that's not why we are on this forum. For God's sake it's only a name!

Now to get back to my point, the habit of asking repeatitive questions especially when the clarification has been given already in many Murli's means we are being greedy for answers. I don't think Shiv Baba objects us from asking questions so we can start our churning process, but at least we should also make some effort/prusharth right??
Just like a student sits in class and does not pay any attention to teacher's lessons and at the end of the class he will disrupt and ask 100's of questions which the teacher already discussed..The reason I brought this was because repeatedly I have seen Shivsena twist and turn Baba's Murli points, as if he wants others to convert into his way of thinking. He has his own logic behind Murli which is so different and contradicts our Advance Knowledge. I think he just wants others to agree with him.

So Anu cutting through the chase I have observed that all these ex-pbk's have opposed the Murli's and Baba's Vani's and you can you see with your own eyes that they might me doing subtle shooting of the vidharmi souls within the rudra mala beads..You see all the variety of 9 or 10 different religions are here within our small rudra mala family. The seeds of all religion are here within our little family (not much united at the moment, but hopefully will in the future) showing their subtle sanskara's with their chaal_chalan( acts).

Nivi

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by ANU » 07 Nov 2010

Dear Nivi

Let's everyone does what he wants. No one can change the individual "logic bulb" of a person, unless he himself changes it.
nivi wrote:Just like a student sits in class and does not pay any attention to teacher's lessons and at the end of the class he will disrupt and ask 100's of questions which the teacher already discussed.
Please, let's be honest. There are many modifications in AK. If someone goes through all the classes, those old and new one and discussions, he will easily notice that the definitions and explanations of the same subjects change depending on the time. This naturally raises questions. There are thousands classes, thousands discussions. And still no clarity in the Brahmin family. Why shall we blame students? They are only humans. They do their best.

Example:
Please, listen to discussion 977. You will learn from it that the seeds of all vidharmi religions are in the mother, Krishna/Brahma and that the Father Ram is completely pure. This is definitely something that may surprise, since till now it has been taught that the Father Ram is the seed of all religions; that everything is in him and he becomes the most impure. So, it is natural that some students, those who need logical explanation of everything, who need accuracy and consistency may raise questions "how, what does it mean".

Listen to the class 1333 and you will learn that Brahma Baba is Adam when he enters Prajapita, not Prajapita himself. This is again, something that may raise questions. And the same concerns dozens topics. The lack of possibility of direct feedback may be frutrating. Mostly students listen to non-living records. This is as if they read scriptures. They cannot interract, they cannot clarify doubts immediately, they cannot receive a clear message. Some people's minds and intellects don't question. They accept everything without thinking and reflecting on it. Some need discussions, churning. That's it. If they don't receive what their minds need, this increases frustration. This is not their fault. The same happens in the laukik school.

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by shivsena » 07 Nov 2010

nivi wrote: ..The reason I brought this was because repeatedly I have seen Shivsena twist and turn Baba's Murli points, as if he wants others to convert into his way of thinking. I think he just wants others to agree with him.
Nivi
Dear nivi.

I have no intention of misleading anybody with my churnings or twisting Murli points to convert others ...twisting and inventing new points are done in advance knowledge with a aim to trap the gullible BKs ....BKs have made the same allegations against PBKs as you are now making against me....my sole aim is to create an awareness among the BKs and PBKs that do not take the explanations of Murlis given by any Didi-Dadi-Dada as truth, but rely on your own churnings to arrive at any conclusion, because every soul has to pass this exam of recognising ALAF himself.
He has his own logic behind Murli which is so different and contradicts our Advanced Knowledge
Yes---i have my own logical interpretation to contradict AK(which is untruth)...and the very fact that anyone who can challenge AK is proof itself that AK is not the truth, as TRUTH cannot be challenged by anyone in this world.

shivsena.

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Re: Trimurti Shiva?

Post by ANU » 07 Nov 2010

shivsena wrote: ... rely on your own churnings to arrive at any conclusion, because every soul has to pass this exam of recognising ALAF himself.
Dear Shivsena.
Could you please reveal on which Sakar Murlis you rely to churn? I mean what is the source of them. We all know that Sakar Murlis have been falsified a lot. So, which version do you use?

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