End of the world - Rome's point of view

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di
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Post by di » 04 Apr 2007

Well, 2000 years to 70? It would be interesting to see the effect of 2000 years of BK-dom.

I agree with what you say though in its devastating effect. I don't mean to be rude but I personally have experienced cruelty, wars, lies and deceptions manufactured in the BK household and transfered to my own. I would hope after 2000 years, Christianity has gained a little wisdom along the way. I have never experienced anything resembling the depth of bigotry and betrayal of family values as what I have on the fringes of the BK organisation.

I went to a Catholic school. I wasn't brainwashed. I grew up in a Catholic household. I was allowed to have my own mind and encouraged to use what intelligence I had been given (and then some). I am sorry if my likening and seeing very strong similarities between the 2 religions offend you. But can you honestly deny them? I am not denying the atrocities done by Christians but I do not think you can deny what also has been documented re BKs. The war I was refering to was the war between the lokik families and the BKs tearing mothers, fathers, brothers sisters and children away.

Once again, my personal, heart breaking indescribable experience. There is nothing that you have said about Christianity that cannot be attributed to BK. That is why I don't belong to any religous sect. I havent found one yet that has not had a jaded history. I have my own believes. That's what I like about this forum. The exchange of views. It is refreshing.

Thank you for bringing the point forward. I respect your views and agree with them to a point. I hold no illusions to the history of Christianity.

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john
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Post by john » 04 Apr 2007

Di
You are talking from a personnal perspective and I am talking from a more global perspective.
Well, 2000 years to 70? It would be interesting to see the effect of 2000 years of BK-dom
They believe they are bringing Heaven on earth.
I have never experienced anything resembling the depth of bigotry and betrayal of family values as what I have on the fringes of the BK org. I went to a Catholic school. I wasnt brainwashed. I grew up in a Catholic household.
Those that are brainwashed don't necessarily consider themselves to be. You have had this kind of thinking from early life so wouldn't consider it brainwashing even if it was.
I am sorry if my likening and seeing very strong similarities between the 2 religions offend you.
It doesn't offend me in the slightest.
Once again, my personal, heart breaking indescribable experience. There is nothing that you have said about Christianity that cannot be attributed to BK.
I know personally for you it has been very hard and really your grievence should be focused more on your partner, but there is no real world comparison between what the Christians have done and what the BKs have done. Maybe in the future BKs may match Christians , but that is pure speculation and cannot be given as any kind of evidence.

di
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Post by di » 04 Apr 2007

Yes it is personal my view.

The personal experiences and views on this forum is global. The child abuse, the PBK beatings, the suicides.

The main difference is, even though we are told these as stories as a child, as we are with Cinderella, Santa Claus and the fairy tales, we are still taught to question. As we mature, we do not believe in Santa but we believe in the moral or the meaning of the story. It is not written in stone as the Murlis or as inflexible. Brainwashing to a certain extent maybe, but there is room for free thinking, choices and flexibility. I think we could debate for much time over the similarities and differences of our beliefs. And I probably am not the best person, as I grew up in that enviroment, but I am not well versed in the teachings. But I guess I am the only Christian here that will stand up and be counted ... :)

Anyway, Jesus is not considered to be an angel. We do not consider we will become angels. We are souls, god's children. Some of us believe heaven and hell is on earth. Some do not. Some of us believe in reincarnation, some don't. Christianity can be as all consuming or a brief guide to life, depending on your wants or vocation. Unfortunately, the BKs demands total devotion, this is my difficulty and I think a global one with the movement.

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john
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Post by john » 04 Apr 2007

Do you consider anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ as the Lord only son of God will be damned to hell?
di wrote:The personal experiences and views on this forum is global. The child abuse, the PBK beatings, the suicides.
Do you know the percentage of these things happening in the BK world to the percentage of similar things happening in the Christian world?

di
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Post by di » 04 Apr 2007

Do you consider anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ as the Lord only son of God will be damned to hell?
No, that is terrible. Not at all. I consider we are all God's children. All of us are loved unconditionally ... Fire and brimstone is a bit old hat now.

I couldn't even guess the percentages. I haven't been involved in the church for many years. I don't think we could ever truly find the figures. I guess I am trying to say, both our belief systems are falible. I (that is just me, and me alone) I believe, there is one God, there is really only one true path, I don't think man can interpret the path. We are so limited in our ability to understand. We are souls in human bodies.

I look (and I don't spent alot of time on this, it is more personal reflection) at the basis of a lot of the religions and they all seem to have the same goals, the same beauty and teachings of unconditional love at the inner most core. Then when the human side of us starts intervening; where we live, our upbringings, our society, politics, our personal experiences come into play is when things start getting confusing. I believe that all these religions are the same religion, just a lot of variations on a theme.

John, I have really opened up to you here, so please don't critise. I am way out of my comfort zone with this. I know there are a lot of flaws in this thinking but it is what I believe. Maybe I just like simplistic thinking. It helps me to accept what I cannot change, and to have strength when I need it. Please remember, I did not make my partner stop going to the centre. He does have a choice. I am not threatening him. He is free to do as he sees fit. That is my religion.

I also think that it is our right and choice to follow whatever path we see fit, and if we do it with a good heart, and good intentions, that is a fine thing. But we must not lose sight of our responsibilities and our duty to care for each other (and that means emotionally) I don't believe that any of us is superior to the other. I think by loving each other and showing that is how we love God. Turning our backs on each other and becoming detached is to me like turning one's back on God.

Anyway, we are getting way off topic here :) Sorry I couldnt be more specific or helpful.

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Post by paulkershaw » 04 Apr 2007

At the very least - some of the time - we can force or request an answer from the various Christian sects on many issues even if there has to be a big media outcry in order to get it.

We cannot even get a senior bk to answer anything to the queries and issues raised on this forum ... but the media's catching on slowly ... we should maybe ask a Catholic priest (or one from another Christian religion) what his viewpoint is of the BK lifestyle and ask them to publish it on this forum under a specific thread, Not that their viewpoint may be 'right' but at least theres an alternative aspect as there should be to everything/all.

It seems that Diversity rules, unless you're into Raja Yoga the bk way.

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john
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Post by john » 04 Apr 2007

paulkershaw wrote:At the very least - some of the time - we can force or request an answer from the various Christian sects on many issues even if there has to be a big media outcry in order to get it.. we cannot even get a senior BK to answer anything to the queries and issues raised on this forum...
Well, what if we try and get answers as a joint body?

What if an official email is sent from this forum to the BK headquarters, then at least we will be able to say for definite whether they are prepared to answer or not and it will go on record.

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john
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Post by john » 04 Apr 2007

Di

Yes we are all entitled to our beliefs and we could be here for a thousand years discussing different beliefs, I just want to put some balance and perspective into the accusations that are being aimed at the BKs.

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paulkershaw
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Post by paulkershaw » 04 Apr 2007

A humble comment here that a belief will become a religion. And a religion becomes a belief system too and unless we learn to change our belief system our own inner religion cannot change too. Its great to have a belief system but never can one person or organisation say its the truth because then they will never change, and it's imperative that everything changes along with our changing world/universe. (or is the world changing because our inner belief systems are changing too?)

If our husbands/wives/partners/significant others look to the bk system it's because they don't have their own firm belief system in place or they're looking to replace or emerge the one they already have - whats probably under question most of the time is the lack of perceived responsibility (The Archangel Gabrielle refers to responsibility as the ability to respond....) from the bk's.

Whatever and Whoever, if its in the name of God then it should only be Godly - Christian wars were certainly never God-driven nor does God hopefully approve of anyone committing suicide because they just couldn't cope with a taught belief from their 'religion'..

Probably going off the tone of the thread now anyway but had to add that. Peace and Easter eggs to all.
XX

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abrahma kumar
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Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Apr 2007

Wow what feedback. I will read with interest later.

What sprung to my mind when i observed the question was the automatic assumption that the BKWSU stream of consciousness could be grafted onto another religion so glibly, with no pause for the traditions of that other religion. Were the boot on the other foot ...

Okay I am making a mountain out of a molehill - deliberately - and I would not dare tell another human want they ought to think - but on a factual level that sort of 'everything originated with Knowledge at the Confluence Age' approach marginalises an awful lot of human experience gathered over centuries. Nowadays I am seeing that tendency as a subtle form of abuse or at least as a way of opening me up to BKWSU orthodoxies under the guise of an open question.

Imagine the number of children around the globe who may be struggling to fit BKWSU teachings into the world view that their teachers instruct them in. Wow, an awful lot of BK parents might be seen as crackpots by their children.

Imagine I am on Baba's service talking to a Christian and I keep flip/flop-ing between the words spirit and soul as though they mean one and the same thing to all folk. It could get me into an awful lot of trouble and bring disrepute to the BKWSU on account of my ignorance.

If I asked what is an Angel? How similar would the BK influenced reply be to the one offered by a man/woman/child in the street of a non-BK persuasion?

Sorry, what was the question: Can any one give some view about how Christians Believe that Jesus Christ has emerged to his Angelic form after 3 days?

Thanks

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