Mind Control Video

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Thought Reform/Mind Control

Post by proy » 18 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:Back on topic ... how do we correlate BK practises to similar or identical practises noted by mind control/thought reform experts? Deny their expertise ... deny the theory entirely ... admit that it is the same but different because this time God is doing it?
Robert Jay Lifton is one such expert. I think I have seen some quotes from him on this forum before, but here follows a good summary of how Mind Control/Thought Reform/Cults work.

Dr. Robert J. Lifton's "Eight Criteria for Thought Reform"

Taken from 'Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism', Chapter 22 (Second Edition, Chapel Hill, 1989), Chapter 15 (First Edition, New York, 1987).

The Future of Immortality
[color=blue][b]Robert Jay Lifton[/b][/color] wrote:Introduction

Any ideology -- that is, any set of emotionally-charged convictions about man and his relationship to the natural or supernatural world -- may be carried by its adherents in a totalistic direction. But this is most likely to occur with those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content and most ambitious or messianic in their claim, whether a religious or political organization. And where totalism exists, a religion, or a political movement. becomes little more than an exclusive cult.

Here you will find a set of criteria, eight psychological themes against which any environment may be judged. In combination, they create an atmosphere which may temporarily energize or exhilarate, but which at the same time pose the gravest of human threats.

Milieu Control

* The most basic feature is the control of human communication within an environment

* If the control is extremely intense, it becomes internalized control -- an attempt to manage an individual's inner communication

* Control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes (information control) creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy

* Groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure

* Often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly isolated, making it extremely difficult--both physically and psychologically--for one to leave

* Sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it's "us against them"

* Closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality)


Mystical Manipulation (Planned Spontaneity)


* Extensive personal manipulation

* Seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated

* Totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative

* The "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment)

* The individual then develops the psychology of the pawn, and participates actively in the manipulation of others

* The leader who becomes the center of the mystical manipulation (or the person in whose name it is done) can be sometimes more real than an abstract god and therefore attractive to cult members

* Legitimizes the deception used to recruit new members and/or raise funds, and the deception used on the "outside world"

The Demand For Purity

* The world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil (everything outside the group)

* One must continually change or conform to the group "norm"

* Tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for the group's controlling and manipulative influences

* Once a person has experienced the totalist polarization of good/evil (black/white thinking), he has great difficulty in regaining a more balanced inner sensitivity to the complexities of human morality

* The radical separation of pure/impure is both within the environment (the group) and the individual

* Ties in with the process of confession -- one must confess when one is not conforming


Confession

* Cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself

* Sessions in which one confesses to one's sin are accompanied by patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change

* Is an act of symbolic self-surrender

* Makes it virtually impossible to attain a reasonable balance between worth and humility

* A person confessing to various sins of pre-cultic existence can both believe in those sins and be covering over other ideas and feelings that s/he is either unaware of or reluctant to discuss

* Often a person will confess to lesser sins while holding on to other secrets (often criticisms/questions/doubts about the group/leaders that may cause them not to advance to a leadership position)

* "The more I accuse myself, the more I have a right to judge you"

Sacred Science

* The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic doctrine or ideology, holding it as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence

* Questioning or criticizing those basic assumptions is prohibited

* A reverence is demanded for the ideology/doctrine, the originators of the ideology/doctrine, the present bearers of the ideology/doctrine

* Offers considerable security to young people because it greatly simplifies the world and answers a contemporary need to combine a sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying the truth about human behavior and human psychology

Loading the Language

* The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliche (thought-stoppers)

* Repetitiously centered on all-encompassing jargon

* "The language of non-thought"

* Words are given new meanings -- the outside world does not use the words or phrases in the same way -- it becomes a "group" word or phrase

Doctrine Over Person


* Every issue in one's life can be reduced to a single set of principles that have an inner coherence to the point that one can claim the experience of truth and feel it

* The pattern of doctrine over person occurs when there is a conflict between what one feels oneself experiencing and what the doctrine or ideology says one should experience

* If one questions the beliefs of the group or the leaders of the group, one is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to even question -- it is always "turned around" on them and the questioner/criticizer is questioned rather than the questions answered directly

* The underlying assumption is that doctrine/ideology is ultimately more valid, true and real than any aspect of actual human character or human experience and one must subject one's experience to that "truth"

* The experience of contradiction can be immediately associated with guilt

* One is made to feel that doubts are reflections of one's own evil

* When doubt arises, conflicts become intense

Dispensing of Existence

* Since the group has an absolute or totalist vision of truth, those who are not in the group are bound up in evil, are not enlightened, are not saved, and do not have the right to exist

* "Being verses nothingness"

* Impediments to legitimate being must be pushed away or destroyed

* One outside the group may always receive their right of existence by joining the group

* Fear manipulation -- if one leaves this group, one leaves God or loses their transformation, for something bad will happen to them

* The group is the "elite", outsiders are "of the world", "evil", "unenlightened", etc.
  • ©1961, 1987, 1989 by Robert Jay Lifton. All rights reserved.

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Re: Thought Reform/Mind Control

Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Mar 2007

I need to read this in depth before responding but, I suppose the BK answer would be
  • ... well, OK, may be it is brainwashing but it is still God and it is True.
The answer of someone that had been brainwashed would be
  • ... well, OK, may be it is brainwashing but it is still God and it is True.
The difference is, the BK would still think it was true.

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Mind Control

Post by proy » 19 Mar 2007

From More about how to identify a mind control cult. Make up your own mind if you see any of this in the BKWSU.
Jan Groenveld wrote:Other Identification Marks

a) The group will have an ELITIST view of itself in relation to others, and a UNIQUE CAUSE. i.e. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT - everyone else is wrong. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES DOING GOD’S WILL - everyone else is in apostasy.

b) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be THEOLOGICAL, SPIRITUAL, SOCIAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL.

How They Do This;
  • 1. Their leader/s may claim a special, exclusive ministry, revelation or position of authority given by God.

    2. They believe they are the only true church and take a critical stance regarding the Christian church while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.

    3. They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members loyal to their ranks. This could be in the form of threats of dire calamity sent by God if they leave; certain death at Armageddon; being shunned by their family and friends etc. This is a vital part of the mind control process.

    4. Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. This could be compulsory tithing (which is checked); signing over all their property on entering the group; coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed; selling magazines, flowers or other goods for the group as part of their “ministry”. At the same time bible-based cults may ridicule churches that take up free-will offerings by passing collection plates and/or sell literature and tapes. They usually brag that they don’t do this. This gives outsiders the intimation that they are not interested in money.

    5. There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of members will be totally absorbed into the group’s activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves because of physical and emotional exhaustion. This is also a vital part of the mind control process.

    6. There will be total control over almost all aspects of the private lives of members. This control can be direct through communal living, or constant and repetitious teaching on “how to be a true Christian” or “being obedient to leadership”. Members will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.

    7. Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity distinction and no paid ministry class - that they are all equal.

    8. Any dissent or questioning of the group’s teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained.

    9. Members are required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in some way. This could be in the form of “dobbing” on fellow members (including family) under the guise of looking out for their “spiritual welfare”. They may be required to deliberately lie (heavenly deception) or give up their lives by refusing some form of medical treatment.

    10. Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with threats. Some may have taken oaths of loyalty that involve their lives or have signed a “covenant” and feel threatened by this.

    Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by other members with coercion to get them to return to the group.
Some Abuses Of Rights And Freedoms:
  • 1. Abuse Of Individuality: They adopt a “groupness” mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.

    2. Abuse Of Intimacy: Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.

    3. Abuse Of Finances: Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.

    4. “Us Versus Them” Mentality: Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as “of the devil” or “unenlightened” etc. Their enemies now include former friends; the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media - the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a “means to an end”.

    5. Abuse Of Time And Energy: The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion.

    6. Abuse Of Free Will: They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their “will” actually becomes the groups “will” without their realizing it. This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of “guilt”.
Results Of This Abuse
  • 1. Personality Changes

    Relatives will say they no longer recognize the person. From a warm, loving personality will come heaped abuse, rejection and feelings of hate. The cult member sees himself as “righteous” in comparison and this comes across in their attitude toward all outsiders.

    2. Loss Of Identity

    They cannot see themselves as individuals apart from the group. Some even change their name as a rejection of their former life.

    3. Paranoid - We Are Being Persecuted

    Any time you say anything negative about the group, whether justified or no, it is regarded as “persecution”. Any criticism of the individual is also seen as persecution only because they are the “true Christian” or “enlightened” one - not because they, as an individual, have done the wrong thing. However, at the same time they will feel free to criticise whatever you believe, say and do because they are “the only ones who are right”.

    4. Social Disorientation

    They lose their ability to socialize outside the group. This can go so far as to not being able to structure their time or make simple decisions for themselves when they leave. Their world-view alters and they perceive the world through their leaders eyes. They become very naive about life in general.

    5. Severe Guilt Complexes

    They are made to feel guilty of everything they did before entering the group and are to strive to be “good” and “worthy” for “eternal life”. Misdemeanors are made into “mountains” so that members are in a constant state of guilt for infringing even the most minor rules. Guilt comes because they aren’t doing enough; entertaining doubts or questions; even thinking rationally for oneself. This guilt is piled upon pile with new rules constantly being laid down about what is sinful and what is not. Illness may be seen as lack of faith - more guilt. Emotional illness may be seen as proof of sin in your life - more guilt.
Summary
  • Not all these points will be found in every cult, but all cults will have some if not most of them, although these may vary to some degree
Copyright 1985, 1995 Jan Groenveld, PO Box 2444, Mansfield Q 4122, Australia.

Reproduction is permitted only if text is intact. The above identifying information must be left intact.

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Qualifications

Post by proy » 19 Mar 2007

To check the background of the "experts" in my previous two posts in this thread try these entries in Wikipedia, or just search for their names yourself in Google. I think you will agree that they are qualified, each in their own way, to write about Mind Control Cults.

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Really freaky, but interesting info!

Post by alladin » 21 Mar 2007

Thanks, Proy, for this contribution.

Unfortunately, many of the points describing the activities and techniques utilized by mind controlling sects sound just like the BKWSU, our "sweet family". Gives me the creeps. I guess when a bull is trained to pull the plough and forbidden to look sideways, he just carries on as he's ordered.

I wish I had raised my eyes earlier! It'd be worth it studying the apparently simple and innocent teachings we are given from the start. Aren't they artfully meant to place us in the right posture of "not looking around, obeying without questioning and not looking for outside help/escape"?

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Margaret Thaler Singer

Post by proy » 21 Mar 2007

Conditions for mind control
Wikipedia wrote:Psychologist Margaret Singer describes in her book Cults in our Midst six conditions which she says would create an atmosphere in which thought reform is possible. Singer states that these conditions involve no need for physical coercion or violence

* Keep the person unaware of what is going on and how she or he is being changed a step at a time.
o Potential new members are led, step by step, through a behavioral-change program without being aware of the final agenda or full content of the group. The goal may be to make them deployable agents for the leadership, to get them to buy more courses, or get them to make a deeper commitment, depending on the leader's aim and desires.
* Control the person's social and/or physical environment; especially control the person's time.
o Through various methods, newer members are kept busy and led to think about the group and its content during as much of their waking time as possible.
* Systematically create a sense of powerlessness in the person.
o This is accomplished by getting members away from the normal social support group for a period of time and into an environment where the majority of people are already group members.
o The members serve as models of the attitudes and behaviors of the group and speak an in- group language.
o Strip members of their main occupation (quit jobs, drop out of school) or source of income or have them turn over their income (or the majority of) to the group.
o Once stripped of your usual support network, your confidence in your own perception erodes.
o As your sense of powerlessness increases, your good judgment and understanding of the world are diminished. (ordinary view of reality is destabilized)
o As group attacks your previous worldview, it causes you distress and inner confusion; yet you are not allowed to speak about this confusion or object to it -- leadership suppresses questions and counters resistance.
o This process is speeded up if you are kept tired -- the cult will keep you constantly busy.
* Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments and experiences in such a way as to inhibit behavior that reflects the person's former social identity.
o Manipulation of experiences can be accomplished through various methods of trance induction, including leaders using such techniques as paced speaking patterns, guided imagery, chanting, long prayer sessions or lectures, and lengthy meditation sessions.
o Your old beliefs and patterns of behavior are defined as irrelevant or evil. Leadership wants these old patterns eliminated, so the member must suppress them.
o Members get positive feedback for conforming to the group's beliefs and behaviors and negative feedback for old beliefs and behavior.
* Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in order to promote learning the group's ideology or belief system and group-approved behaviors.
o Good behavior, demonstrating an understanding and acceptance of the group's beliefs, and compliance are rewarded while questioning, expressing doubts or criticizing are met with disapproval, redress and possible rejection. If one expresses a question, he or she is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to be questioning.
o The only feedback members get is from the group, they become totally dependent upon the rewards given by those who control the environment.
o Members must learn varying amounts of new information about the beliefs of the group and the behaviors expected by the group.
o The more complicated and filled with contradictions the new system is and the more difficult it is to learn, the more effective the conversion process will be.
o Esteem and affection from peers is very important to new recruits. Approval comes from having the new member's behaviors and thought patterns conform to the models (members). Members' relationship with peers is threatened whenever they fail to learn or display new behaviors. Over time, the easy solution to the insecurity generated by the difficulties of learning the new system is to inhibit any display of doubts -- new recruits simply acquiesce, affirm and act as if they do understand and accept the new ideology.
* Put forth a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure that permits no feedback and refuses to be modified except by leadership approval or executive order.
o The group has a top-down, pyramid structure. The leaders must have verbal ways of never losing.
o Members are not allowed to question, criticize or complain -- if they do, the leaders allege that the member is defective -- not the organization or the beliefs.
o The individual is always wrong -- the system, its leaders and its belief are always right.
o Conversion or remolding of the individual member happens in a closed system. As members learn to modify their behavior in order to be accepted in this closed system, they change -- begin to speak the language -- which serves to further isolate them from their prior beliefs and behaviors.

A report on brainwashing and mind control presented by an American Psychological Association (APA) task force known as the APA Taskforce on Deceptive and Indirect Techniques of Persuasion and Control (DIMPAC), chaired by Singer, was rejected in 1987 by the APA's Board of Social and Ethical Responsibility for Psychology (BSERP) as lacking "the scientific rigor and evenhanded critical approach necessary for APA imprimatur." and cautioned the task force members to "not distribute or publicize the report without indicating that the report was unacceptable to the Board."
Wikipedia wrote:Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph.D. (1921 - 2003) was a clinical psychologist and adjunct professor emeritus of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, USA.

Dr. Singer's main areas of research included schizophrenia, family therapy, brainwashing and coercive persuasion. Singer performed research at the University of Colorado’s School of Medicine, Walter Reed Army Medical Center Institute of Research, the National Institute of Mental Health, the United States Air Force and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. She received many awards for her work, including the Leo J. Ryan Memorial Award, the Research Scientist Award from the National Institute of Mental Health, the Hofheimer Prize from the American College of Psychiatrists, and the Stanley R. Dean Award from the American College of Psychiatrists.

In the 1960's she began to study the nature of cults and mind control, and was on the board of the American Family Foundation. She is the author of the book, Cults in Our Midst. She gave expert testimony in several cult-related trials, including the 1976 trial of Patty Hearst, who had previously been kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army, and the 1977 hearing for five members of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church.

In 1987, Dr. Singer headed the APA taskforce on Deceptive and Indirect Techniques of Persuasion and Control for the American Psychological Association, whose report was later rejected by the Board of Social and Ethical Responsibility for Psychology of the APA. Singer subsequently sued the APA in 1992 for "defamation, frauds, aiding and abetting and conspiracy" and lost in 1994. After the report was rejected, her expert testimony in four subsequent cases was not accepted.

Articles in The New York Times and the The Los Angeles Times reported complaints by Singer and her family, that she endured harassment and death threats due to her "battles" with the cults.

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Re: Margaret Thaler Singer

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Mar 2007

alladin wrote:I wish I had raised my eyes earlier! It'd be worth it studying the apparently simple and innocent teachings we are given from the start. Aren't they artfully meant to place us in the right posture of "not looking around, obeying without questioning and not looking for outside help/escape"?
Absolutely. My working theory on the BKWSU spooks (and that may not be Shiva and so don't think I am accusing) is that they are not necessarily that big and strong. Obviously Lekhraj Kirpalani was a very accomplished man in his own field but one can imagine that he was also limited in a human sense too.

If Brahma or Mama were in the BKWSU today, they would not be allowed to go and do service. They would probably be barred from the centers for writing daft letters to the Queen of England and destroying all the good PR Nikki de Carteret and Brian Bacon had built up for Janki and Jayanti.

I have a problem with most anti-cult groups, and that is two fold; firstly, they are mostly conservative Christian ... and although it has done good, a lot of Christianity sucks badly; secondly, they are family based ... and ONE HELL of a lot more abuse goes on in families, especially orthodox or conservative families, than it will EVER do in cults. They want to protect the myth of happy nuclear families which just is not true either.

I am probably a cult apologist because I think individuals need space to explore and experiment living. But within cults, human are hard enough to live with their being spooks and spookery involved.
proy wrote:Psychologist Margaret Singer describes in her book Cults in our Midst six conditions which she says would create an atmosphere in which thought reform is possible. Singer states that these conditions involve no need for physical coercion or violence.

I do not disagree with the above. Actually, I neither agree nor disagree because I have not had any time to go over it yet. But ...

I would warn anyone going into an academic argument to be cautious of talking Singer's position. Not because it is wrong but because for many people she represents one side of a polemic argument between culties and anti-culties, and there are groups of individuals rabidly out to discredit her work, such as the Scientologists on one hand and the cult apologists, or politically correct New Religious Movement people on the other.

For me, I do not know enough about the psychological technique behind thought reform, or brainwashing, to stand my ground. Intuitively, I do. I am conscious of nationalistic thought reform each day via politics, the media and especially religion. It appears to me that life is one big mind bending opportunity over others for a certain type of person. And, yes, the BKs appear to fix into the given models SURPRISING well.

In a sense I am not for or against it. It is merely inevitable in life. It is who or what is behind it I am more interested in. The magician behind the screen. Not enough mention of spooks in the theory.

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upsidedown bat

Post by alladin » 22 Mar 2007

All the exposing and digging reported on the Forum by our zealous, determined, unpaid sewadhari archaeologistst and journalists is so powerful - and takes time to read :wink: - and provides precious documentation and ongoing new material to think about and confront ourselves with.

I guess one day we have to come to terms with many unresolved issues, and the sooner the better. I can imagine many BKs peeping into the Forum's posts and reacting in different ways. Sometimes we open a book and put it down if it seems too "heavy". Later on, when we are ready, have time and the conditions are right, what seemed uninteresting, unsuitable or incomprehensible, becomes sound and enlightening, it starts making sense.

Is the time for the predicted "shake of the tree" approaching?

Feels like a refreshing breeze to me, dancing around. Electifying atmosphere! Brace for the big storm! It's not the "Anti-Party" shaking the tree, it's the Almighty straightening up the bat!!

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Cult Rescuers

Post by proy » 23 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:I have a problem with most anti-cult groups, and that is two fold; firstly, they are mostly conservative Christian
I agree totally with this. For me, one of the most valuable facets of this forum is that we are not trying to convert or save anyone. IMHO to try to save someone from the BKs or any other cult is a mistake in itself. People have their own lives to live, and their own experiences to go through. I am here just to tell my own story, give my own opinion, and point people towards information they might not otherwise see. To try to rescue people from anything is a game I will not get caught in. The rescuer is in just as difficult a psychological position as the rescued. To save someone from a cult in order to bring them back to Jesus is anathema to me. I only include information from the Christian anti-cult groups because they have found some enlightening parallels in what they do to our writings here. It is a shame there are not more forums like this. Places that are neutral, rather than with their own agenda. There are web sites, like the ex-Sai Baba EXBABA web site, or the ex-FWBO web site which readers here might find interesting, but I have yet to come across another forum like this one.
secondly, they are family based ... and ONE HELL of a lot more abuse goes on in families, especially orthodox or conservative families, than it will EVER do in cults. They want to protect the myth of happy nuclear families which just is not true either.
I do not know about the family based ones, and the issues surrounding them. If it is relevant to the topic, then I would like to hear about it here, otherwise I would be very interested to know about them in a private message.
alladin wrote:Is the time for the predicted "shake of The Tree" approaching?
I have not heard this phrase before. I can guess what it means I think, but I would appreciate an expanded explanation.
All the exposing and digging reported on the Forum by our zealous, determined, unpaid sewadhari archaeologistst and journalists is so powerful - and takes time to read
Yes, I know they are long posts, and can be a turn off, but as you say you can come back to them later.

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Re: Cult Rescuers

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Mar 2007

I wrote:secondly, they are family based ... and ONE HELL of a lot more abuse goes on in families, especially orthodox or conservative families, than it will EVER do in cults. They want to protect the myth of happy nuclear families which just is not true either.
Sorry, I meant abuse in families generally. They uphold "the family" as a paragon of virtue and goodness, which it may not be. In general the British ones are well-reasoned and rational but the American ones whack out completely.

There is no doubt that cults challenge the institution of "the family" whether in the West today or in Pakistan inthe 1930s. Its a land grab. Cult build social real estate on individuals moving time, money and resources from their families to the cults. But that is not to say that the institution of the family should not be challenged from time to time, e.g. patriarchy, abuse, inapt cultural and religious mores, parental psychosis. There is a balance between protecting the fabric of a society based on families groups and encourage individuals.
alladin wrote:Is the time for the predicted "shake of The Tree" approaching?
I think it means a time when the Brahmakumaris would be shaken by life experiences (Drama) and many BKs would fall out of the tree due a lack of faith, discipline, whatever ...

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Why Join?

Post by proy » 23 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:ONE HELL of a lot more abuse goes on in families, especially orthodox or conservative families, than it will EVER do in cults. They want to protect the myth of happy nuclear families which just is not true either ... I meant abuse in families generally. They uphold "the family" as a paragon of virtue and goodness, which it may not be. There is a balance between protecting the fabric of a society based on families groups and encourage individuals.
This has given me the impetus to start a new thread which I have been thinking about for some days now - why did we join the BKs in the first place? Is there a common thread to our reasons?

Why Join? :arrow:

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Post by alladin » 23 Mar 2007

Thanks ex-l for clarifying about the shaking of the Tree. It's exactly that. We used to hear about it a lot, thinking mainly that tests to the BK org would come in force from the outside world.

But maybe it is coming from within the family itself.

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Post by alladin » 24 Mar 2007

proy wrote:To try to rescue people from anything is a game I will not get caught in. The rescuer is in just as difficult a psychological position as the rescued.
I agree with that. I had to deal with my tendencies of trying to help people out of smack, alcohol, etc, so I know what you mean. However it's a bit of a dilemma to me. When you see especially new BKs enthusiastic, not burnt yet, getting used, you may feel like warning them at least mildly. At least I would dare to say to any one : don't neglect your lokik studies and career because of service or thinking that Destruction will come tomorrow.

Time flyes and Kaliyug is merciless. What you haven't accomplished when you are 20 or 30 years old, you won't be able to do it at 40 or 50, or 60. What's the point of ending up with an uninteresting badly paid job, or even jobless because you were roaming around the BKs activities?

This doesn't apply to very wealthy people, just the normal ones!

As I said earlier, I am in the phase of putting the breathing mask and the rescuer's gear on. Serving myself first, to be ready and get into the haystack ablaze. :wink:

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fluffy bunny
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Re: mind games

Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Mar 2007

alladin wrote:Experts on terrorism, never stop saying that Al Queda and other groups, get their fighters from the madrassas, where mullahs feed hordes of children left orphans by wars and famine. Lodge them, curb them, feed them and brainwash them with fundamentalist interpretetions of the Koran. That's how they form fanatics. Any similarities?
I agree that the BKWSU has 'unconsciously' developed and uses very efficient brainwashing and thought reform techniques. You can safely say it has been accused of hypnotism and being a cult since the very beginning in the 1930s.

Looking back, many of the young girls of Om Mandli/Om Nivas who became the senior sisters of today were, in effect, "orphaned' from their famlies by force and violence, taken away from any other parental and family influences other than the devotees of Divine Father God Prajapati Brahma and Divine Mother Om Radhe and surely under trauma of losing other parents etc.

Although I will agree the community that they came was not ideal, Hindus being force fed pig does not suggest the most loveful or compassionate manner in which to fight the influences of Om Baba, I think that I can prove now that Om Mandali was not the most healthy of environments either. And that Lekhraj Kirpalani and Om Radhe were basically a bit mad. Actually, and this is where the skeptics will fall off their chairs and I loose all credibility, I do not think they were mad. I think that they were deeply traumatised by their experiences and beset by spirits or spiritual influences. Either way, they were out of touch with reality and in deep "persecution/defence" mode; are indeed the Mullahs, Muhajedeen and young Islamic men of today.

A rational point of view could analyse all that went on in Om Mandli and deduce it was a psychological reaction to the persecution and violence of the Bhaibund community in the early days. But that would neither explain the trance mediumship and prolonged visions that began at the beginning. Which actually increased after Lekhraj Kirpalani died in 1969, ghosts, if that was what they were, were popping up all around the Yagya.

My working theory is that the possessing spirit or spirits (be it Dad Lehkraj or whoever) were trying to find a good and reliable host medium to seat them in and did so in Gulzar. I would like to read more detailed documentation of that period. And still uncontrolled psychism continues to this day 70 yeara later in off-the-planet, this-will-never-end "Honeymoon Period" BKs.

It could just be the results of hysteria which is then "schooled" by the leaders. I am thinking of The Crucible by Arthur Miller and The Salem Witchcraft Trials of 1692 here. A very similar story. But, personally, I have no embarrassment at saying "spooks" whether it turns out to be spooks or just a "collective sub-conscious" reaction amongst sexually repressed and unfulfilled teenage girls and wives with absent husbands, e.g. "poltergeist" phenomena focusing on Lekhraj Kirpalani as the pivotal magnet for it all.

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More Video

Post by proy » 05 Apr 2007

Here is the mind control video to top them all. Read the article first.

The Most Hated Family In America

Then watch several VIDEOS from the BBC about this family which is a cult in itself. I am not saying this is the BKs, but some similarities are easy to pick up on. Especially disturbing is the way the children are brought up in this cult/family.

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