Soul mate

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andrey
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Soul mate

Post by andrey » 18 May 2006

I have never belived this thing can exist. I have even known her for a long time before I can understand. For me it is good to think like this because at least I’m saved from thinking of other women. And it is so natural. One man for one woman. Nothing matters anymore because it is on the level of the understanding of the intellect, knowledge. Heart will shake first. Feelings may change. Problems may arise, but …intellect...who can thrust his hand into my intellect. Only ShivBaba – the intellect of the intellects can. It is such a big fortune to have found him and to have found her. Now what should I do if I have to choose.

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Post by mr green » 22 May 2006

If you have found a woman that fits in with your life, then you are a lucky man (sorry, I am assuming your male) any god that dissapproves of such a thing is not a god worth knowing

Be happy my friend, it is your life and belongs to no one but you.

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Post by howiemac » 22 May 2006

Mr Green wrote:if you have found a woman that fits in with your life, then you are a lucky man - any god that dissapproves of such a thing is not a god worth knowing
I second that heartily :).

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Post by zhukov » 25 May 2006

Soul mates are entirely possible.

I stand as a case in point ~ when I first saw my fiancee I knew immediately; instantly I had to be with this person. I was terrified of men in general due to childhood abuse and would always flee from any contact, however superficial ... until I met him.

So I was more amazed than just about anyone as to why I wasn't running away :shock: :D :!:

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Re: soul mate

Post by fluffy bunny » 25 May 2006

Andrey wrote:It is such a big fortune to have found him and to have found her. Now what should I do if I have to choose.
Don't beat her over the head with Murli points. It does not work!

Put Gyan on the backboiler, separate your life. You will regret it if you do not grab the opportunity. The potential of it will haunt you and spoil your Yoga for the rest of your life. Just call it a karmic account to be settled and see how long it lasts for. But no Gyan.

Just be a gentle example. Love her well and let her go when she wants. God will wait [ ... and the cynic in me says that it won't last for ever as long as you don't complicate things and get her pregnant ]. But it sounds like you might have lost her already?

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Re: soul mate

Post by joel » 25 May 2006

Andrey wrote:I have never belived this thing can exist. I have even known her for a long time before I can understand. For me it is good to think like this because at least I’m saved from thinking of other women. And it is so natural. One man for one woman. Nothing matters anymore because it is on the level of the understanding of the intellect, knowledge. Heart will shake first. Feelings may change. Problems may arise, but …intellect...who can thrust his hand into my intellect. Only ShivBaba – the intellect of the intellects can. It is such a big fortune to have found him and to have found her. Now what should I do if I have to choose.
Something my mother said, "I don't have the energy to deal with bad things that haven't happened yet." Of course she did and does devote energy to preventing outcomes she fears. Intimate partners, like children, challenge one by not conforming our expectations. Sometimes we have to choose between our expectations and standards, and the person.

It is a blessing, in my opinion, to be "weak" enough that instead of adhering to something rigid, one bends with compassion to the person. I know that toward the end of my days as an active BK, I had to choose between BK-standard behavior, and being an accepting supportive friend to a woman I cared about. I am glad I was a "weak" enough BK to choose the latter.

I've heard of some very cruel behaviors by senior BK sisters who've been "strong" enough to adhere to their Godly(tm) principles. "Common" people without spiritual or religious training are often better at accepting others because there is not intellectual baggage competing with human compassion.

You haven't given many particulars, Andrey; hope I haven't overstepped limits on talking on this subject. It's a quite important subject to me, since ideas about celibacy and detachment definitely impacted my personal relationships over many years. Good luck :wink:

Hmm, nice light blue smiley. Thanks for lightening up those blue meanies!

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Post by andrey » 29 May 2006

Dear brothers,
I like from the Murlis the saing that decision is not to be made and decision has already been made. If she is my soul mate will i be able to lose her? Baba says there are cases of someone leaving his husband or wife, but is ther the practice of leaving a brother or sister?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 29 May 2006

Andrey wrote:I like from the Murlis the saying that decision is not to be made and decision has already been made. If she is my soul mate will I be able to lose her? Baba says there are cases of someone leaving his husband or wife, but is ther the practice of leaving a brother or sister?
Of course there are. I have, if you mean leaving either a lokik or alokik brother or sister. You can also to so legal if you wish. Legally disassociate yourself from your family, so Baba is wrong here.

The hardline BK response is very unromantic; that there are no such things as " soul mates ". It would just be considered lust, attachment or some karmic bondage to the other soul and if you were not married and living at the same centre, you would be told to keep apart and not see each other, not have Yoga with each other.

The bottomline is if you are having Yoga with this woman, then you are not having Yoga with your god.

The only applicable advice I can think from the so called Shiva is that " it is better to get married than burn with lust ". But why I am not sure. It may just be cultural. At least in the West and modern India there is the option of just going out and getting laid and then moving on. Perhaps that Shrimat is a hidden curse, " if you think Gyan is tough, go get married and see what that is like ! ".

The problem with relationships is that they require a lot of time and energy and utlimately you are left serving or a slave to their other person's level of consciousness. The BKs would argue that they create a lot of karmic bondages between you and that soul - and, of course, they are no help whatsoever to your meditation. If they are "body conscious", then you end up serving " body consciousness ".

On the other hand, I have never heard anything said against a man having a housemaid or servant, so if you want someone to cook andlook after you, I guess that is always an option. Just get someone whose body is old and unattractive to you so as not to be the cause of Maya. ;-) So what is it you want? That she submits to PBK Gyan and you live as a celebate couple? Or do you want to carry on full relationships?

That does not seem to fit Andrey. You are tearing yourself apart.

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Post by andrey » 29 May 2006

Dear brother,

In the broad world, in BK and PBK there are many, many different kinds of souls. Just look at all the different types of bodies there are in the world and one can guess how many different, different types of souls there are inside all these bodies, and even more, one can reach each ones individual uniqueness.

This is in the broad world in a big, big way, in the Brahmin world in a smaller way and in the world of the Advance Party in an even smaller, smaller way. Yes, there must be even such types of souls, or such individuals that would play such a part that they would even like to have a relationship with their own mother such a relationship as with a wife. There maybe even be such practical lokik and alokik cases.

Baba cannot be wrong. We can ourselves be wrong in our interpretation. Lust cannot appear if there is an attitude of brother and sister But brother, yes, there are such practical cases, that ? vision of lust even appears between lokik brother and sister, Father and daugther, mother and son, techer and student, doctor and patient. And not that only a vision may appear but a practical act can be performed but in such a case it is that there is not an attitude and a vision towards one another as a soul or as a brother and sister but there is an attitude and vision as a body and a lustfull vision.

Soul mate is related to the soul. Relationship with ShivBaba is also not related to the body and it is on the level of the attitude. One can think Baba can be wrong if the attitude is that it is not the true, real Baba, it is an ordinary human being. One can even have the attitude the Supreme Soul Shiv does not even exist at all.

Why should we have Yoga with Shiv? Yoga is a matter of the mind and intellect. If in the mind and intellect it has fitted well that oh, this is definitely my baba, then….officiality will not be needed. One can leave him, but he would stay his own. Like you can leave your brother or sister practically or officially, but indeed they are still your brother or sister. That’s why it is said we are orphans. Orphans still have their own lokik mother and Father, but it is that they just don’t know them.

ShivBaba comes and adopts us. He says – you souls are now mine. We say o no, we are not yours we are my lokik mother’s my lokik fathers, we belong to many many. But he says, no, consider yourself to be alone and remember me. Why? Would he like to do us harm? He is Benefactor, isn’t it? So it is for our own benefit. He says to die for all relationships to the body and all relationships of the soul to become united in one relationship with one. Then the soul becomes independent. Then how can be separation after that.

Sometimes the parents that adopt are better than the real ones. But here the case is that we are adopted by the real parents. Because it is a spiritual relationship and not physical. And thus it is an imperishable relationship, after the spirit is imperishable, isn’t it. He says he give us an inheritance for 21 births. What is this inheritance of happiness and peace. It is such an imperishable relationship that he gives, isn’t it?

Lust cannot be conquered in any other way like separating onself from females, hiding away, but only through Yoga with the one who is always a soul. But if we have a relationship with someone who is always a soul without a body, then the matter of conquering lust does not arise at all. When there is no body there is no matter of conquering lust. Likewise we can cut our own organ and say we did it. But it is not a matter of anything physical.

Baba speaks about the cowardly purity of the sanyasy that they run away and say, " oh, we remained pure ", that it is like a saying of a prisoner that he stayed pure. But we are now to be made free. Free from even such thoughts at all. Free from even touching with the mind and intellect, and it is whilst we are in the body, isn’t it. That’s why Baba says the purity of deities is different. Deities are shown as couples. Viceful persons try to separate them to make them belong to oneself in order to fulfill his impure desire. But the couple does not belong to someone else.

Maybe there is a mistake. I said that lust can be conquered just by having a spirtitual relationship or Yoga, or connection of the mind and intellect with the one who is only a soul a body /meaning Shiv/. Maybe it is not right. Maybe it is rather that one should have a relationship with the one who himself conquers lust. He is the Father of Humanity.

Shiv comes only to show us who he is. Because Shiva makes no effort, and we never can mach him, and there is no need. We just raise now. We cannot become free from the cycle. But we conquer doubt. How? By having a connection with the one who himself has no doubt.

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Andrey's defense mechanism

Post by fluffy bunny » 29 May 2006

Andrey,

you turn everything into a ten minute BK lecture and use it as a defensive mechanism. If you are that lonely you should open a centre and give lectures to whoever turn up and see if they stay. Or go back in time and do what the BKs did, go to libraries, spiritual churches, New Age centres and advertsie your talks.

So, cutting through the waffle, what are you feelings towards this woman ? Are you in love with her or do you just want her to submit to become a PBK ?
  • The first one is incompatible with Gyan.
  • The second one wont work.
If she is not a BK soul then she will think that you are mad and be put off by your evangelism. You would have to hide it all from her. If she is a BK soul, you have about a 9 out of 10 chance that she will leave BK anyway ... it is your choice whether you go with her or not.

Find me a Murli point that says it is OK to look for a girlfriend.
  • Sorry, wrong religion.
Your problem is that you are living too far away from a centre. Do not have not enough association with other BKs - especially individuals senior to you. And are using your mind to justify anything you want from " the scriptures ".
  • Tut, tut. That's an old Bhakti sanskar!
You will have to leave Gyan to go and find happiness in relationships - or admit that you are not really in it and so it does not matter what you do. You seem to like to use Gyan purely to dominate others mentally. If this is what you did to the girl then no wonder she ran from you.

Sorry but it just does not work like that.

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Post by andrey » 29 May 2006

Yes brother, it’s a situation, I’m happy with. I like putting myself in those, because of the challenge. At least I have to choose between two, not many, so the correct choice probability rises to 50%. And here I give up. I’m not that powerful to take such a big decision. So I hope I won’t have to.

I should use defense if there is an offence, so I speak out of other motive. The more the opposition the more one sets to a position.

Loneliness is to be alone. How many does one need to not be alone. Not a class to speak over. Just one he needs, but who out of the two?

I don’t accept Gyan as scriptures. It makes me feel good. It helps me manage my life. I use it for my own benefit. Yes it is about a mental domination, but can this be the aim…what a world will be then, to have all under your control, no, brother we should all rise up as equals, our aim is to control ourselves, not others, to not see ones own weaknesses, ones anothers weaknesses, not that we should see them and point them out to others, but we should avoid looking at them and hiding them for the other one. Like when we see something ugly why should we keep looking at it. We turn our head away.

Yes feelings matter, but we can change feelings and we can direct feelings. We are stronger and more powerfull and masters of our feelings. At least we should be. And yes sometimes it happens situations. Like for instance, did I ever looked for God? Did I ever though I would find one? Never, ever I was having such high aspirations. But sometimes practically it happens in a many, many times more special way.

Yes here I have no BK near, PBK near, no center, but it helps me not having the so discriminating attitude of BK, PBk, noBK. And it helps me concentrating on the spiritual connection. One becomes subservient to seniours if one has done something wrong to them. One should not be so dependant, nor so independent that he does not mind others at all. Yes, one should think for onself, because after all it is ones own life. Everything returns back to you. If someone tells you to do something and you do, he may be responsible, but you may be hurt. Let’s take the example with the jump out of the window.

I cannot find a Murli point that says this, it’s an overall impression. I can look for one. But do you believe in it? And whose Murli it is? Brahma Baba’s Murli? Whas it him that spoke. Or speeches of the seniours. Do we have to be so dependant on what other peoples say. We should also think ourselves for ourselves, for our own benefit. Baba says the soul itself is its own friend and own enemy. Yes I quote because I like. And it makes one think about it. It should not be that we have the attitude – OK stop it. Why should we stop others from doing things, or telling them what to do?

Yes, I need, as probably everyone does to justify ones own deeds. Should we act under complete fear and depression that everything we do is wrong. We sometimes make mistakes, sometimes not. It is rather we should think whatever we do is right. Out of love for oneself we should think like this. Like when someone makes mistake we forget and forgive.

And where is there happiness. Happiness is there in the soul. Baba says to go to heaven means to go into the self, soul. The knowledge itself gives happiness. We receive it from him. Happiness is not there in the body. Happiness is in the soul that experiences. And there is supersensual happiness. Knowledge itself gives happiness.

What does it mean to leave Gyan, leave Baba?

I was thinking of the saying about the first love, that never disappears completely. The Confluence Age is itself the beginning. These relationships starts now and lasts a long time. Baba comes and teaches love, comes and teaches the teach to make vikarma akarma. Not a bondage, but to make oneself free from bondage. And this whole knowledge is just a recognition to the one it is an introduction. It is matter of 1 sec.

Yes, the forum is a good opportunity to share, Yes I don’t have that close minded souls around. I share because I think others would like to hear. And what it is that I speak. My own personal problems or whatever occupies my mind and it is all about that whatever I am I’ve become due to the influence of one. So I share that. Yes, Baba is here he gives new special knowledge, and if I have to loose that it’s a big loss. But if one has to live under tread of loss and separation, there has never been a true meeting, isn’t it. Good things are kept in the heart and they help heal the wounds from the past. It is not that bad feelings will dominate. No. Why? Love is the original form of the soul that now appears again. It’s a practical knowledge. One can even make money out of it. Phisical money are for the physical body’s survival. The money of the soul’s survival is love. Yaad is called love. We can love one the more we are detached. Detached means not attached to anyone. Free.

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Post by andrey » 29 May 2006

No, there is again a mistake. I know from Baba money means souls. We are poor we have no one.

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Post by andrey » 05 Jun 2006

There may be well association, but no comunication. The best communication is Yoga, isn’t it? But if we don’t know whom to have Yoga with…we are lost in our own imagination, where there is neither reality, nor sweetnes, nor benefit. Loneliness is not so bad quality. Kings have always been alone.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Jun 2006

Andrey wrote:Kings have always been alone.
You wish Andrey. I challenge the fortress of your preconceptions.

I doubt if Kings get to be alone for one hour of their own time, at least one hour without one of their likely concubines ... They would be always surrounded by others. You mean Sadhu or Sanyasi ... The usual criticism of any BK that spends too much time on their own is that they have too strong sanskars from following the Sanyasi path during the Cycle!

So, truly, why on personal level do you go and live near or join one of the centers? They say a BK community is a powerful mirror that let's us see ourself in others also on the path. You said that you felt they treated you like a little bit of a bandit or barbarian when you went to Abu, what did you feel?

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Post by andrey » 06 Jun 2006

Dear brother,

I said Baba looked to me at first glance as a bandit, like someone whom you cannot fool, someone who is expericenced, someone who can fool you, but you cannot fool him.
I'll try to anwer the questions being most close to the topick. Soul mate - will it make the soul more lonely ... soul mate is a companion...loneliness is not a matter of phisical loneliness ... in the Murlis it is said we should be alone even when we are amongs others. And when we are physically alone we should not feel alone.

King are alone because they don't listen to anyone, nobody dares speak to them, they are the ones who has to speak to others and give directions. They are the ones who have to take decisions themselves, on their own, with no advice from anyone. When kings degrade they start having advisors and many wifes.

At Abu i was very OK. everything is phisically there. It is like a small example of the whole world. But Baba is not there, our home is where our Baba is.

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