Animal Soul World(s)

for discussing science, relationships, religion or non-BK spirituality.
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atma
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Post by atma » 10 Sep 2006

Bhai's,

Go to http://www.peta.org and you will see many disgusting things. Bhai, Arjuna I look forward to the response from Baba.

There was something recenlty where a dog was nursing cats pretty amazing indeed. I feel animals are a form of entertainment(not the circus type) when I watch them they make me smile and often I laugh at there silliness they are such characters. I had a unique experience where I was watching some sheep and they where far away just eating there greens and my wife and I were watching them. They where not paying too much interest to us simply chewing away. Then I started to have strong Yaad (rememberance) and then they walked over to us and wanted to lick my hands.

It was pretty neat. They definitely add something to this world.

atma

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 10 Sep 2006

Dear Atma Bhai and sister Bansy,

While we await Baba's response, I was thinking that the killing of Croc show man Steve Irwin by a stingray in the oceans must also be a karmic account, but without knowing the past births it is indeed difficult to account for such karmic debts.

Although it is out of context but what do you think of Steve Irwin taking his new born baby near the crocodile just to entertain people? Though Baba asks us to become a detached observer, but I don't think many souls would approve of such acts or be ready to taks such risks.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by bansy » 10 Sep 2006

Arjun wrote:Although it is out of context but what do you think of Steve Irwin taking his new born baby near the crocodile just to entertain people? Though Baba asks us to become a detached observer, but I don't think many souls would approve of such acts or be ready to taks such risks.
Dear Arjunbhai,
As this is dealing with a human soul, it is a careless act and no respect of the baby. A huge ego, which has overshadowed many of the greater things he has offered, but we must forgive. When the baby grows up, just wonder how she/he would feel.

I am also looking forward to ShivBaba's (Virendra Dev Dixit) reply. There are many other living things on this planet that just pass us by each day ... trees, flowers, meadows, goldfish, ants, etc. When we take a detached view these things entertain us, but I agree Arjunbhai, when humans interfere it may not be really very entertaining. If your soul cannot be in harmony with these things now, how will you enjoy and be in harmony with them next time ?

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atma
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Post by atma » 11 Sep 2006

Bhai Arjun and Bansey,

Well, I guess he was in the entertainment business and for some odd reason he thought bringing his child would bring more entertainment value. What is interesting is the amount of press his death has received? Sister Bansey, what is there to forgive? A detached observer ... now, that is a very unique subject matter.

atma

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 13 Sep 2006

Sister Bansy and Atma Bhai,
Om Shanti. Thanks for your responses. Yes, we have to learn to live in harmony not only with the living beings but also the nature. The climatic changes and frequent natural calamities are only a result of the harm that the human beings have caused to the nature.

Those who pollute the mother nature (both living and non-living) will have to suffer in the end when all the elements of the nature will attack at the same time. While those who have lived harmoniously with mother nature would be protected by her.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Sep 2006

bansy wrote:Bees and ants have incredible teamwork.
I had a longer answer to this but unfortunately lost it through a mistake on my browser.

Do a search for "group" or "hive souls". You may have to dig deep. It is the theory that below a certain level of creation, animals or insects do not have individual souls but "hive souls" or "group souls", that is one soul for a hive or even a species. I can not say "I know this" to be true but it makes sense. I read an interesting article relating to a hive of bees leaving after the death of the old Queen being a bit like the human soul/spirit leaving an old body.

The great Western scientist/mystic Rudlof Steiner wrote and talked much about these and other nature spirits. Many of the World's animistic religions have knowledge about such entities, most have had it beaten out of them by later orthodoxies like Christianity. How the group soul tehory works, I have no idea. It would be interesting to know where the boundaries are between individual souls, animal souls, hive souls, organisms and plants. Each boundary seems blurred to me, e.g. some animals above some humans, some animals below some plants, plants and baterica ... where do those independent evolved organisms called mitochondria within our very cells that keep our bodies alive fit in? And where and how did they appear form within The Cycle?

It is sad that the so called Spiritual University does not apply itself on all such knowing rather than chasing VIPs and Fortune 500 company directors. Although Shiva might not talk on this subject, and his followers show no interest, other channelled entities and enlightened teachers do. Its strange how enlightened teachers of the past, or channelled entities of other realms seem to say and know more than Shiva - even though by the Gyan, Shiva is meant to be the Ocean of Knowledge and the Father of all these souls. May be his followers have just never pushed him hard enough for answers, rather just falling back on personal Bhakti.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 14 Sep 2006

ex-l wrote:where do those independent evolved organisms called mitochondria within our very cells that keep our bodies alive fit in?
Dear brother, I thought that the whole human body consisting of billions of cells is treated as one living organism, but your statement will make each cell in the human body to be an independant organism.
As far as I know mitochondria is only a part of any living cell which is supposed to be its power-house :lol:
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Sep 2006

arjun wrote:Dear Brother, I thought that the whole human body consisting of billions of cells is treated as one living organism, but your statement will make each cell in the human body to be an independant organism.
As far as I know mitochondria is only a part of any living cell which is supposed to be its power-house :lol:
We think of our bodies as one living organism, but rather they are like nations within which many independent living organisms dwell, the whole requiring the many. [Indeed, our bodies as planets would be a far better analogy]. The mitochondria are like city workers in each "city" cell but have their own DNA, their own history, lifecycles and heritage; just like the worms, bugs, virus and bacterias found in every corner of our body.

Without mitochondria, higher animals would not exist because their cells would not be able to obtain energy. In a sense, it is the mitochondria that have made us. [Us = soul in body].

They keep us alive in order that we keep them alive in, a parasitic/symbiotic manner, until our body dies and then they take over to break it down and pass themselves on to the next one. Many parallel universes. The scientific hypothesis states that millions of years ago, free-living single cell organisms were engulfed by other, larger ones and the two cells developed a cooperative relationship ... and x Millions of years later, they are now inside of us working away ensuring they continue in their existence.

Again, where is the dividing line between, soul, spirit ... bodies, bacterium, plants? Most of religion and spirituality was conceived before there was any awareness of such living things and has not beeb updated. There is no explanation given within Gyan of the nature and evolution of the body and it is harsh to say but without an explanation, belief in Gyan requires an utter ignorance of these things - and science in general.

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Post by button slammer » 16 Sep 2006

Again, where is the dividing line between, soul, spirit ... bodies, bacterium, plants? Most of religion and spirituality was conceived before there was any awareness of such living things and has not beeb updated. There is no explanation given within Gyan of the nature and evolution of the body and it is harsh to say but without an explanation, belief in Gyan requires an utter ignorance of these things - and science in general.
'by understanding One, you will understand the 10 000 things'

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 30 Oct 2006

Prashna: Kya jaanvaron ki aatmaen hoti hain?
Ans: Janvaron ki bhi atmayen hoti hain, lekin manushyon aur badey jaanwaron kay muquabley buddhi percentage may kam hoti hai.


Prashna: Kya ati-laghu jaanvar, jaisey keetanuon ki aatmaon may bhi man, buddhi, sanskar hota hai?
Uttar: Hoti hai lekin jadatwamayi hoti hai.


Prashna: Sangamyug kay ant may jaanvaron ki aatmaen kahaan jaati hain? Kya unka Paramdham alag hota hai?
Uttar: Paramdham jate hai, lekin jyada buddhi wale, buddhi ki jo jyada teekhe hote hai , jyada oonchi tabake me rahete hai , ksheen buddhi wale janwar neeche tabake me rahete hai.


Prashna: Satyug may jaaney ke liye jaanvaron ki aatmaen punya kaisey kamaati hain?
Uttar: Jaise gaai acchey karma karti hai.


Prashna: Yadi jaanvaron ki aatmaon ko punya nahi kamaana padta hai toh fir hamey Shiv ki Shrimat ka paalan kyon karna padta hai? Jaanvaron ki aatmaen numbervaar kaisey banti hain? Yadi numberwaar ham manushyatmaon par laagoo hota hai toh un par kyon nahi?
Uttar: Jaise gaai acchey karma karti hai.


Question: Do animals have souls?
Ans: Animals also have souls, but when compared to the human beings and big animals, their percentage of intellect is lesser.

Question: Do the souls of tiny animals like microbes also consist of mind, intellect and resolves?
Ans: Yes, they too possess mind, intellect and resolves, but they are inert.

Question: Where do the souls of animals go at the end of the Confluence Age? Do they have a separate Soul World?
Ans: They go to the Soul World, but those which possess more intellect, those whose intellect is cleverer, live in the higher sections; those who possess a weaker intellect live in the lower sections.

Question: How do animals souls earn the karma in order to go into the Golden Age?
Ans: Just as a cow performs good actions.

Question: If animals don't have to, then why do we have to follow Shiva's Shrimat? How, are the animal souls made numberwise? If numberwise applies to us human souls, then why not them?
Ans: Just as a cow performs good actions.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 30 Oct 2006

Om Shanti. Today I was listening to one of the recent numberless Discussion CD (which was probably recorded at Pune Gitapathshala) where Baba, while discussing something about Malaria said that the microbes (keetaanu) that cause such diseases also have souls.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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