Sexual assault in Gyan

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john
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Sexual assault in Gyan

Post by john » 12 May 2007

jannisder wrote:This organization is a danger to all who is getting involved and has my great concern. There is more going on as you can see on http://www.brahmakumaris.info. (suicide, child-abuse, fraud, mind-control etc.)

Documented incidents of child abuse within the organization brushed aside by leaders as due to the bad karma of the children suffering sex abuse and outside of their responsibility, the perpetrators avoid punishment or reporting to police.
  • * Social and psychological problems faced by ex-followers including two suicides within one family.
    * Rape and physical violence from families and partners of Brahma Kumaris.
    * Questionable advertisement of relationship with United Nations Organization.
ex-l wrote:One cannot STATE "child abuse" especially, because it is too legal threatening, unless it is recorded somewhere, e.g. court, police, newspapers. You can refer to "allegations of" but child abuse, rape
I must say i thought it a bit strong. So where does the rape bit come from, have I missed something?

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BKWSU murder/suicides

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 May 2007

john wrote:I must say I thought it a bit strong. So where does the rape bit come from, have I missed something?
Yes, one wants to make any comments not too easy for the BKWSU to dismiss and paint any ciriticism as extremism. They have accused Eromain as acting out of hate on the basis of his child abuse report and on the Wikipedia, they say this domain is an "attack website", which is a little bit superficial when you consider the research, churning, support and meeting of all parties we do.

The truth is, those incidents have and do happen but their numbers are probably much lower than society's average. I think the issue is not that they do happen. They do.

There is an ongoing murder/suicide/pregancy investigation going on at the BKWSU center in Panipat, Haryana in which all the BK teachers appear to have absconded leaving the center to have been looted by locals enraged by the discovery. What is under examination if the leaderships response to them which is, I think, what Eromain was on about.

The murder/suicide investigation is not the first of its kind. In another unreported incident (on this site) a BK sister was found in a burnt out center with evidence of sexual congress. Whether it was rape and murder or consensual sex and suicide we may never know.

The former incident has been reported on Star News Channel India and in the Dainik Bhaskar or Dainik Jagaran newspapers. If there are any local BKs or ex-BKs who can comment on this, please document findings here.

Do BKs hear and discuss these incidents? No. Baba tells them "not a hair on their heads will be harmed ... like the kittens of a cat" and the SS keep matters looking squeaky clean.

Of the rapes, I can specifically remember the sister in Australia that was raped by her partner in a final last grasp at the dissolution of their marriage follwing her involvement in Gyan. There were incidents at the beginning of the Yagya. And there was that horrific taxi murder of another Australian BK sister (I believe she was done in with a screwdriver) only a few years ago which was said to have had sexual overtones.

Still, these things do happen in all corners. They are not necessarily all the fault of the BKs. Some are, without doubt, complicated and inflammed by BK involvement. The Ranjana Incident, for example. But again, it is the handling of them that I look at. BKs are kept gaga about the realities in some child-like state on onehand and "karma" on the other.

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Post by john » 12 May 2007

I see, yes, rapes against BKs. It could maybe look to the casual observer that BKs were doing the raping.

I see the need for accountability and good guidelines and practices to be put into place by the BKSWU to meet the standards that are acceptable by the modern world which they have now become part of.
What is under examination if the leaderships response to them which is, I think, what Eromain was on about.
Absolutely, what the BKSWU does about these situations is their accountability. Ignore it and "brush it under the carpet" tactics are not acceptable. I believe the BKSWU have the finances and resources to totally bring their policies into line. Maybe BK teachers or centre owners need to have disclosure documents, the same kind that are needed to gain employement in places where they would come into contact with children.

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Post by arjun » 14 May 2007

ex-l wrote:There is an ongoing murder/suicide/pregancy investigation going on at the BKWSU center in Panipat, Haryana in which all the BK teachers appear to have absconded leaving the center to have been looted by locals enraged by the discovery. What is under examination if the leaderships response to them which is, I think, what Eromain was on about.
It is an unfortunate incident whoever may be the victim. Although it is the internal affair of the BKs, I would like to say that my BK sources have informed me that it was a case of suicide of a surrendered brother while other residents of the center were away, while as per the non-BK view (as reported to me by non-BKs) it was a case of murder through poisoning because the brother knew some confidential facts that he wanted to make public.

Even if it was really a case of suicide, the circumstances that led to it would certainly be investigated by the Police since the matter has been in public domain since quite long time.

It might be recalled that Panipat is the same place where some PBK brothers were kidnapped and beaten mercilessly by BKs after their megaprogramme a couple of years ago. Aged PBK mothers were also manhandled by the BK guards on the same occasion. Since all the PBKs who had gone there to give Godly message were outsiders, their written complaint was not at all investigated by the local Police. Karma theory at its work!!!

I hope the BKs would be able to overcome this obstacle soon.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Not a hair on your head will be touched ...

Post by fluffy bunny » 14 May 2007

arjun wrote:Although it is the internal affair of the BKs, I would like to say that my BK sources have informed me that it was a case of suicide of a surrendered Brother while other residents of the center were away, while as per the non-BK view (as reported to me by non-BKs) it was a case of murder through poisoning because the Brother knew some confidential facts that he wanted to make public.
Its not the first time that sex related event has rocked a center, was there not another case where a sister was found in a burnt out center with some evidence of sexual congress, whether voluntary or involuntary?

I just flag it up because individuals, sisters especially, have to remain rational and vigilant and not just be trusting and naive "because Baba in the Murli told them that not a hair on their head will be touched".

Its obviously not true. No one can depend on Baba's magic alone to protect them.

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Re: Not a hair on your head will be touched ...

Post by john » 14 May 2007

ex-l wrote:Its obviously not true. No one can depend on Baba's magic alone to protect them.
Here we have another situation where Murli seemingly contradicts itself because it also says, 'children will have to endure violence, it is written in drama'.

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Post by arjun » 14 May 2007

ex-l wrote:I just flag it up because individuals, Sisters especially, have to remain rational and vigilant and not just be trusting and naive "because Baba in the Murli told them that not a hair on their head will be touched". Its obviously not true. No one can depend on Baba's magic alone to protect them.
As far as my belief goes, what Baba has said in the Murli is very much true. It is only when we become weak in following the Shrimat that sexual assaults take place. Baba has told the Kumaris/Mothers that if anyone tries to sexually assault them they should shout so loudly that the assaulter runs away out of fear of attracting public attention.

Baba has also asked Kumaris to assume the form of Kali in regard to such assaulters. It is only when the victim remains silent that the assaulter becomes courageous to continue with the assault. Thousands of BK sisters living alone in BK centers world wide is a proof that they are safeguarding themselves with the power of Rajyog. Safeguarding the purity of young BK sisters is indeed a cause of worry for Dadis and senior sisters, and I suppose they take enough steps in that direction. Cases of sexual assault on BK sisters, if happening anywhere, must certainly be due to their own weakness and are most probably hushed up as far as possible.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun.

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Post by paulkershaw » 14 May 2007

Arjun wrote:Cases of sexual assault on BK Sisters, if happening anywhere, must certainly be due to their own weakness and are most probably hushed up as far as possible.
Would you say the same thing if the person was not a BK? Did they deserve it because they were weak? Not fair I think ... but perhaps I am reading your post wrong and your comment may mean the "non-official' BK response to these occurences?

Anyway, I feel strongly that one should be careful how we perceive sexual assault ... I know of a specific instance years ago where a BK sister was raped and subsequently became pregnant. It was not weakness on her side but rather a desire to assist a supposed friend that led to her being raped. A case where the goodness of her heart changed her entire life. She wasn't being weak, she was being charitable and the result was awful and emotional. She was widely supported by all her BK 'family' bros and sisters included, we were there virtually at the birth and looked after the kid until the mother left Gyan.

It is really not fair to say that anyone getting assaulted, raped or otherwise, is due to their own weakness and this could be perceived as not caring Even if it is their karma - they still may not have been weak and "therefore deserved it" ...

Rape is Rape, on a Bk or non-Bk; assault is wrong, on a BK or non BK.

Whether or not the assault is hushed up is another matter for discussion and many families; non-Bk included may choose to hush it up - so we cannot just say that about the BK's. However the correct method from the supposed professional BK organisation should probably be to have a professional counselling setup in place for such instances as the long term effects of sexual assault is deep and damaging indeed.
~~~~~

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Sexual assault in Gyan

Post by fluffy bunny » 14 May 2007

arjuna wrote:Cases of sexual assault on BK Sisters, if happening anywhere, must certainly be due to their own weakness and are most probably hushed up as far as possible.
If there was one point that I could hammer into the BK mentality, it would be that "new karma happens". And that is new Karma both good and bad.

With respect, I think that it is a real cultural hangover from Indian Bhakti that *every* ill fortune that blows your way is your fault. It is not logical for me. Unless there is room for individuals to do new good or bad karma in the first place. No new karma could be created. Therefore some new karma has to be allowed and some of that bad. And, of course, India has a very exaggerate problem looking at the whole issue of women and sexuality.

I would be very concerned to know how sisters were treated out there. Firstly, they are at a far greater threat and, secondly, there is this heavy discrimination against sexual women, even if their sexing was done involuntarily by rape. It is seen, as you express and the BKWSU Child Abuse Report demonstrated, that it was their fault and they brought it on themselves.

To put it into Gyani context, the Baba has also said it is when you are strong that Maya blows up to test you the most. I have no specific Murli points to support what I will say now, but it is said that in this age, death etc is untimely and so my feeling is that, a) the happenings of life are much more random and chaotic and b) specific negative elements would be out to hurt and damage yogi souls at any cost.

We have to be cautious not to apply superstitious powers to Gyan and instead, as Virendra Dev Dixit says, kick, punch and scream like a fury instead when it counts! That can be a provocation but I have read that women who did it feel better because at least they tried to do something.

I was sexually assaulted by a man soon after I came into Gyan. This is very personal. Thankfully it was very mild and no big deal. But I relate it because it identifies a state of mind we can fall into.

I was leaving a spiritual center in a part of the country where there was little to no transport and lifts were often shared. A respectable looking man in a jacket etc gave me a lift but then started touching me, moving his hand up my thigh. (I guess I must have much prettier when I was young).

I just did not know what to do. It was pathetic. I was frozen. I was trying to meditate and call Baba. I was trying desparately to think of what it said in the Murli to do, I did not want to cause more sorrow or bad karma ... I was absolutely stuck. It was awful. I had no sense of self, no sense of what rights I had over my own or the disassociated body I was in. I can imagine very well the experience some women speak out about being frozen, out of their bodies and unable to do anything.

Had I been centered and acting according to instinct, I would have known exactly what to do; scream, shouted even whacked him to pull over and stop. But the path that the BKs were encouraging me on was this very uncentered, spaced out, passive, impractical path. Basically, I was being taught and encouraged by people that did not have a clue about real life and how to live it, it was all "woo-woo" angels and spirituality. I was pretty much still in the Honeymoon Period.

I think also too that the leadership encourage BKs to be passive rather than progressive because it suits their status quo. Assertativeness is also a divine virtue but not one they encourage individuals to experiment. One is encouraged to be spaced out and ungrounded and mistake this for being "spiritual", a spirit IN its body. This, I think, is the problem with some of the men we are discussing with these other women and is a reflection of the way BK was/is taught in the West. Others comments please.

The next lift I got, the non-BK, instinctful person had had the same thing happen to them, when they were young, by a pervert. Instead they told me that whacked him straight in the face whilst he was still driving, forcing the car over, pushed him out and then drove his car away to a police station near to their destination. I was in awe and wished that I had had the sense to do it too, Karma or no karma! Their animal instincts of survival took over to protect them. Survival is not a BK trait when consummed with thoughts of Destruction and dying alive.

I felt so dirty and upset at myself for having been so weak and allowing myself to be touched but I was weakened by all the unnatural confusion that trying to follow the partial path of Gyan the BKs were teaching. The fear of "ego" perhaps had become confused with creating a lack of self; self-worth, personal boundaries etc.

I hope this helps others.

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Post by mr green » 14 May 2007

It does often appear there can be dire consequences from having a really deep faith.

People often unwittingly take advantage of that faith.

It is very hard to understand feeling a victim when your head is full of karma ideals.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 14 May 2007

mr green wrote:It does often appear there can be dire consequences from having a really deep faith.
I think it is all part of disassociating us with reality until we are weak, confused and controllable.

You may be a BK, or you may not. You still have to learn to live life and manage it, grow up, trust your instincts, and act upon then. With the false reality, all of our instincts might be screaming out for us to run but we do not because we have are lost in our heads with that which is unreal. The effect of a sexual abuse (not mine but a proper one) on the self and one's immediate circle is so deep that it should be taken very seriously.

Unless an individual is trully blessed with the power to see the real karma, it is best to just not know instead of pressume I think.

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Post by arjun » 15 May 2007

Paulkershaw wrote:Would you say the same thing if the person was not a BK? Did they deserve it because they were weak? Not fair I think ... but perhaps I am reading your post wrong and your comment may mean the "non-official' BK response to these occurences?
I was not speaking about the non-BKs. I was speaking only from the official BK point of view about such persons who themselves have some inclination towards experiencing physical pleasure and end up being sexually assaulted by persons with wicked intentions. According to Murlis and Avyakt Vanis, if the spiritual stage of any BK/PBK (surrendered or non-surrendered) is strong enough, then no person with any vicious thought can dare stand before you. And especially in case of the residents of BK/PBK centers, the rules with regard to safeguarding one's purity are so strict that under normal circumstances even if one's not physically strong, one would be able to avoid incidents of sexual assault. If you read my previous post in the light of the following extracts from an Avyakt Vani, then you would be able to understand it in a better way.

? "Wherever you live, consider yourself to be worship worthy great soul always. Neither you should look at anyone, nor anybody else should look at you. Consider yourself to be such worship worthy soul. Nobody can look at the kumaris who remain in the remembrance of being a worship worthy soul. Always keep yourself alert in this regard. Never keep yourself in a light remembrance. Never be careless that I have become Brahmakumari. Now I have become Dadi or Didi. No. this is just for narrations sake. But I am a great soul, worship worthy soul. Nobody can look at Shakti (with a bad intention) if anyone looks at her with a bad intention, then its shown that he became a buffalo (there’s a story in Hindu mythology, that a demon who showed disrespect to a female deity was transformed into a buffalo). Just as a buffalo is black in color, so that soul (who looks at a Shakti with a bad intention) became a buffalo i.e. dark and he will get an intellect of buffalo i.e. fat head, because if anyone looks at a shakti with bad intention then even in this the weakness will be said to be that of Kumaris.

Pandavas have their own weaknesses and kumaris have their own weaknesses. That’s why check yourself. Dadis, Didis (senior sisters of Brahmakumaries organization) are also always afraid that anyone should not look at the sisters with a bad intention. So you are strong, isn’t it? Never get affected by anyone. This sevadhari is very nice, he is a very good helper in service. No, Father gets things done through me (i.e. I am just instrumental). So neither become weak yourself nor leave any margin for others to become weak. Nobody’s report should come in this matter."
[Avyakt Vani dated 19/5/83 published by BKs in Hindi, translated by a PBK]

But if any BK/PBK sister (or even non-BK sister) is subjected to sexual assault due to her physical weakness, when all attempts by her to save her purity fails, then it is a different matter and we must certainly understand her helplessness and such incidents definitely need to be condemned.
It is really not fair to say that anyone getting assaulted, raped or otherwise, is due to their own weakness and this could be perceived as not caring Even if it is their karma - they still may not have been weak and "therefore deserved it" ...

Rape is Rape, on a BK or non-BK; assault is wrong, on a BK or non BK.

Whether or not the assault is hushed up is another matter for discussion and many families; non-BK included may choose to hush it up - so we cannot just say that about the BK's. However the correct method from the supposed professional BK organisation should probably be to have a professional counselling setup in place for such instances as the long term effects of sexual assault is deep and damaging indeed.
I fully agree with you. I never meant to say that if a person is raped then it is their karma and that they should be left to suffer. Rape should be condemned, whether it is against a BK or non-BK. And all possible help should be given to the victim to overcome the mental and physical pain damage that the incident has caused.

As regards hushing up of such incidents, I agree that most people of the world would adopt that method to avoid bad name. And even the Indian law affords considerable protection to rape victims by ensuring the confidentiality of their identity all through the court proceedings.

But in case of BKs it assumes a different dimension because they go out of their way to cook up stories about sexual assaults by Baba Virendra Dev Dixit on PBK sisters. One of my PBK friends (a bachelor of 50) was told by a BK teacher that if you become a PBK you would have experience sex there. And this is not a one-off example. It is repeated in every BK center where any BK has come in contact with PBKs. They are given such horrific description of the PBKs (Shankar Party acc. to them) that a person would dare not come in contact with the PBKs.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by paulkershaw » 15 May 2007

Hi Arjun

Thanx for your clarification, I appreciate your direct answer and your input. I have it in context now. Ta.
But in case of BKs it assumes a different dimension because they go out of their way to cook up stories about sexual assaults by Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit on PBK Sisters. One of my PBK friends (a bachelor of 50) was told by a BK teacher that if you become a PBK you would have experience sex there. And this is not a one-off example. It is repeated in every BK center where any BK has come in contact with PBKs. They are given such horrific description of the PBKs (Shankar Party acc. to them) that a person would dare not come in contact with the PBKs.
Another case of the BK's now being insecure enough to try to put down others 'viewpoints' at all costs. Using the old 'fear' method to control. It seems that this is happening on a more regular basis nowadays huh! What goes around comes around I reckon ... time will tell.

In love and light
xx P xx

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Post by arjun » 15 May 2007

Baba has also asked Kumaris to assume the form of Kali in regard to such assaulters.
"Especially kumaris should not become Sheetala (a female Hindu deity who’s the personification of calmness), they should become Kali (another deity known for her ferocious from towards demons). You understand the form in which you have to become Sheetla. But when you are in service, when you're on duty, then the form of Kali is required. If you have a form of Kali (during service) then you will not sacrifice yourself on someone, but you will make others sacrifice themselves over you." [Avyakt Vani dated 28/5/70, Pg-225 published by BKs in Hindi, translated by a PBK ]
Baba has told the Kumaris/Mothers that if anyone tries to sexually assault them they should shout so loudly that the assaulter runs away out of fear of attracting public attention.
"Kumars become sinful. Both become sinful. Clapping takes place when both of them wish. If she possesses courage, then she should cry so loudly that he runs away immediately." [Revised Sakar Murli dated 4/3/69 Pg-4, published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK]

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On off; sex and the BKWSU

Post by fluffy bunny » 15 May 2007

arjun wrote:But in case of BKs it assumes a different dimension because they go out of their way to cook up stories about sexual assaults by Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit on PBK Sisters. One of my PBK friends (a bachelor of 50) was told by a BK teacher that if you become a PBK you would have experience sex there. And this is not a one-off example. It is repeated in every BK center where any BK has come in contact with PBKs.

And one can only wonder what karma the BKs are loading up for themselves by saying such things ... terrible, terrible thing.

We know of case of many BKs in many countries, including high profile individuals, that carry on pleasurable not forced sexual relationships while even, in one case at least, still taking the Guddhi. Let the world know this.

I have no need, nor any desire to make more of a point of it. My sincere compassion goes out to them and the personal difficulties they are experiencing. My own advice on the matter would echo Lekhraj Kirpalani's from the Sakar Murlis; "It is better to get married than burn in the fire of lust". Sex, sexual energies, sexual intercourse is not a simple subject and has to be faced with courage and honesty, not beaten down with superstition, suppression and covered up for publicity's sake.

Never let the BKWSU throw stones at others from within their own glasshouse or else they might be surprised at what comes back their way.

If we are to take Lekhraj Kirpalani's words and apply it to the Western context, how would that apply? In the West, if you want to make love you can. Mostly, it is no big thing. No shame. No guilt. It is just seen as natural as eating. In India, sex is much more hidebound with hypocritical cultural stigma, especially for women. Just who the men are going to do it with without women, we know ... they use financial inequalities to exploit the females of the poor. Often this suppression errupts in violent act of crime. What should the BK do?

My answer would be, formally walk away from BKs and go and do it. Learn the lesson, without shame, pay the price but do not defame the Father or the Family. And do not re-write the Gyan to defend your decision. I know of BKs or 'demi-BKs' that do defame the Father taking "little holidays from the principles", and those that defend them, say that "celibacy is optional" or "only advised not demanded". This is the message in the West. In one case such a Indian supporter offered the sexual services of prostitutes in a foreign country as an attempted bribe to silence a husband whose wife was entering the BKWSU. It sugest to me that he already had knowledge of the practise.

In the West, it apears that the BKWSU have created such a fudge over this that we have incidents like the women here suffering the breakdown of their marriages and family lives not know what is going on because their husbands are on-off all the time. This is a problem that will bring more problems.

How do other Western sisters find dealing with members of the opposite sex whilst in the workplace etc? Are the signals they send out misinterpretated by non-BKs? Do they cause problems in this area? I have seen with my own eye that the whole "not dressing up in a sari to do covert service bring problems when non-BK males hit by the love bombing of BKs and the high energy of BK events, start to make passes as BK sisters and want to hug them and things in a New Agey way. I think a few of your India BKs or PBKs eye would be wide open if you saw what goes on!

Frankly, I think the whole drishti thing can be very erotically charged as well, or at least effect erotic energies. For all we know, it might even partially be the channelling of that energy.

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