BKs at Strategies for Overcoming Depression Seminars

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john morgan
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Re: BKs at Strategies for Overcoming Depression Seminars

Post by john morgan » 07 Jun 2008

People help themselves. If you explain according to your capacity how to improve the situation and the person makes effort they can progress, can you do more?. The weakest little finger can be made into a strong and vigorous one through proper exercise.

The notion that it is possible to help a person without their making effort is false. All states of mind are temporary, they must either get better or worse, if the sufferer makes good effort his condition will improve, if he does not his state will worsen.

Drugs alleviate symptoms, they do not cure. The side effects of drugs can be debilitating and are often horrific. I met a guy recently who had a drug side effect fit, for him it was a matter of course he'd been on very powerful anti-psychotics for a very long time. Others die, they are a statistic, that's all. Psychiatry is fear based and often the main care is to prevent a worst case scenario (by over drugging) that may never happen. They see their patients as patients. I strongly suspect that considerations such as long term achievement rarely enter the diagnosis and treatment process.

The BK run both a university and a spiritual hospital in the same place. Some learn about deep spiritual things and become angels, others are learning how to think and help themselves. The BK can and do give special help but its important not to become distracted by those further along the way. The BK antidote for getting too impressed is "where did these qualities come from?" The answer is Baba the source of all strengths. So we work with what we have and opportunities to progress come our way. When hope faith and effort are present it is possible to move mountains.

That thoughts can create chemicals in the body that are far superior to man made drugs seems to me to be true. Medical science so far has not proved it, this does not mean that it is false. My preference is a thought of optimism to one of despair. My understanding of the soul is that it is made of light and that according to its purity and piety it has strength. But science wonders if there even is a soul. Certainly they will never find it with a miroscope. BK have knowledge about the soul and how it loses its power and is influenced by matter. They also have knowledge of God and how the soul can feel his prescence and become whole once more. Science recognises none of this. A depressed person sees the worst in themselves and often the worst in others. The BK teach people to look for good qualities both in and outside themselves. Is this an antidote for depression? I think that over a period of time, if practiced conscientiously, it is.

Fairly often I come in contact with depressed, anxious, bipolar and schizophrenic individuals. Nowadays there is an emphasis on their living in the community. Often these people are isolated and need as much kindness as they can get. Sometimes it takes many encounters before they can even begin to open up. Its very important to know what these people are going through before one tries to help but sometimes all one can do is guess.

I find that often it is often possible to give them hope and faith, along with something to do that makes them much kinder to themselves. Why psychiatry cannot do this is beyond me. When I see these people, they tend to smile and some are happy just to see me. I love doing this stuff and if a person tries to come off drugs (I never influence them) I pay special attention because they tend to progress very quickly. These are golden opportunities that help me too, in one way I am grateful that psychiatry does such a bad job.

James Allen had insight. He has explained to me in terms that I can understand much about how BK knowledge works and he also speaks for me, the common man. I have no idea how many people James Allen helped, I just know that I am one of them and his help has been considerable - is good karma possible after death? That jayadeepan can read his book and within hours say what he has is very similar to a person who studies the Murli, then forgets all about it. Its horses for courses. Often people do not recognise the real and substantial hand of help. Its the tiniest fraction of our world that can appear on paper. Sometimes when people write their ideas are tried and tested, for others they are just bandied about, for others their value is that they can be arranged to prove their point. Interesting.

Kindest regards,

John

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Re: BKs at Strategies for Overcoming Depression Seminars

Post by jaycdp » 07 Jun 2008

Om Shanti

There is no such thing as controlling some one else's mind. Yes, you can to a point. BK Ram is a liar. I hear about his kind of story all the time. Most important is, it is wrong saying some one else's soul came to that person. It is not some one else, it is same person who is loose. And if you study this person, you will understand this person has this history.

Most important is to control your own emotion. This is what Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains and old Hindu saints teach. Controlling some one else's emotion is abusive and inappropriate. Even though what Dadi claims to be done was not inappropriate.

Control your own emotions. In other words, mind your own business. This is what I like about Eastern religion. Chrisitanity and Islam have a very bad history of controlling some one else emotion.

May be Bk Ram is telling the truth. Even in this case the Kali form is that Dadi will quietly handle the situation and provide immense peace to this person. This is true Kali form. Kali form is not to tell other people what to do. Kali form is to role model others to be peaceful and infect that peace arround him.

Om Shanti

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Re: BKs at Strategies for Overcoming Depression Seminars

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Jun 2008

John,

re the limitation of the power of thought healing ( or laws of thought as you called it) over mental illness. What about in cases of dementia, Alzheimer's or senility? We have questioned and discussed here the anomalous behaviour of Dadi Prakashmani for some time before her death. She, like other Seniors, became clearly senile. Anomalous within the BK belief system which has gone even further recently to claim Prakashmani became "Avyakt", karmateet (free from karma) and perfect.

On one hand we had the head of the organization, "one of the 8", surely a most powerful example of all yogi souls ... and yet she lost it mentally. This proves to me that at least the body/brain occupies some part of the equation. What about congenital conditions, nerve damage from malnutrition etc?

Note, I occupy a middle point between yourself and Jay's position and am trying to refine the claims to where they belong. 'Human being' appears to be an approximate scale of reference within which we have geniuses, athletes, bimbos, cripples and so utterly mutant forms that they are not even functional ... all with a "soul in a body" by the BK lore.

I am emphasising the need for responsibility and defining of the limitation of the undefined or unproven "powers and laws" they promote in environments where vulnerable individuals exits, e.g. depressed, ADHD, bi-polar etc. For me, again there is the need for clarity and division between what is basic mental focus, positive contemplation and actually "hooking them up with Shiva" and seeing if their brick explodes* or not.

Thanks.

* brick explodes is a direct Murli references taken from the god of the BK, or Lekhraj Kirpalani, who was talking about how individual BKs are "bricks" in his oven (the bhatti) and how some bricks become hard (good) and how some bricks with defects crack and explode (bad). Dispassionately taken from the real life metaphor but applying to the human lives of his followers. we have recorded incidents of bricks exploding, i.e. human becoming mentally ill following the practises. (A rationalist might even argue that one does not need to be mad to join the Brahma Kumaris, but it helps).

john morgan
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Re: BKs at Strategies for Overcoming Depression Seminars

Post by john morgan » 11 Jun 2008

Hello ex-I,

In Gyan one is asked to remember the Soul World, the Confluence Age or the Golden Age. One is being asked to think of a better time than the Iron Age that so many realise that they are in. So thinking of peace and or/happiness or even health when one is depressed could be considered Gyan. Gyan is a ladder of thought, from one rung you can climb to the next. Stay too long on one rung and it can crumble beneath you. Each rung of the Ladder could be considered just a little happier than the the one immediately below it. Get Gyan right and you can find yourself on a moving escalator. Get it absolutely right and you take an express lift or even a rocket into a new consciousness.

So what is the difference between Gyan and non Gyan thought? It s just a matter of degree. Gyani thought is simply stronger than human thought. When most people talk about the power of thought healing they have no idea of the strength that can be in that. Mary Baker Eddy in her book Science and Health seemed to me to be saying that a state of grace is what we are all in at every moment of every day but in our ignorance we believe that something else is true. So with her (as I understand it) there was no process of healing over a period of time or even healing at all. The moment you truly understand there is instant transformation. Many sick people have gone to Lourdes for healing, those who have experienced "Instant cures" have often been those who from a brownie point religious perspective are at the bottom of the pile. With nothing to lose they "go for it" and they win :D If you "go for it" away from Lourdes will it still work? Of course, its magic!

Now all this is a bit too much for most to swallow, the human cause and effect that most of us live in being relegated to second place by miracles seems most unrealistic and for most it is, but the fact is that for some it is true.

I don't think anyone has all the answers for everyone else. When you give someone advice you also have to make them vigilant of the effect that following your advice is having on them just in case it doesn't work.

Probably if Sherlock Holmes were to investigate "The Case of the Exploding Bricks" he would conclude that the BK are as guilty as sin. A marvellous medicine used in the wrong context can be poison. A good doctor examines his patient well, performs all kinds of tests and then gives his advice. There is no point in giving advice that does not work. An exploding brick is indicative of a do or die philosophy, and thats not very resourceful for a Supreme Soul!

I have no idea why people go gaga. There are thought forms that say when 40 slow down when 60 prepare to die, old age does not come alone etc. - all negative self fulfilling prophecies. I doubt that any yogi would fall for those. During autopsy for senility or alzheimers half the brain is sometimes found to be "missing." The funeral pyre is more often seen than the autopsy table in India, what the state of Dadi Prakaskmani's brain was when she died we simply do not know. Cutting her up may have provided real insight and served many others. The facilities in the Gobal Hospital must have been sufficient. I am blank on what they do the bodies of deceased Popes, I think the last one had Parkinsons, how the Roman Catholic world coped with that is also a blank. Poison! See the dark dank places that your post are taking me to ex-1?

Time for a cup of tea!

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fluffy bunny
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Re: BKs at Strategies for Overcoming Depression Seminars

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Jun 2008

I think you are damned right that we should be performing autopsies on these Seniors to see if there is any evidence for the 70 years plus tapasya. What a good idea. We should be very detached abut this and consider the greater good.

In the meanwhile, I would say too many of the leading BK Raja Yogis have fallen to serious illness for "accounts of the body", as they say, or just plain unreasonable claims, not to be invoked.

Far better to set the bar higher I think and not give others false hopes. Better to send the ill to specialists in healing be it allopathic or spiritualistic.

Surely the path of Raja Yoga is more than healing and not even intent on bodily?

john morgan
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Re: BKs at Strategies for Overcoming Depression Seminars

Post by john morgan » 11 Jun 2008

The notion that physical sickness can be a process of burning off old karma is something that I subscribe to but let us not forget the topic.

In the BK world, depression is a sort of sin. There is every reason to be happy and none whatever for being sad. If you are depressed whilst studying Raja Yoga, the BK concept of time can work very much against you. For example, I feel depressed this will happen every 5,000 years, this is my destiny, I cannot be a Golden Aged soul because these are not Golden Aged Sanskaras that I am experiencing.

This is the very opposite of the thinking that will enable one to step out of depression once and for all.

Just the thought that you may be a "faulty Brick" could bring on Depression.

As human beings we deal in thought. A negative thought that is set in mental concrete needs a very good Jack Hammer to destroy it unless of course one understands the nature of thought and applies an antidote. Often BKs can be so full of their own happiness that they are blind to the unhappiness of others, they are successful (happy) those lesser souls have their own karma, hard luck! It must be the material in the brick! I find this type of thinking so sad but it does happen and it happens much more frequently that the BK would like to admit.

It is ultimately each persons own responsibility to think one's way through the minefield of harmful sanskaras. If the BK have a way that works and wish to act as guides thats fine by me. To instill hope in followers and then not deliver is a sin of great consequence. That people leave the study feeling that they are damned forever is no good advertisement for the BK world. Greater care is needed. If the BK are not going to provide this it is absolutely essential that students recognise their shortcomings and take more care in their dealings with what can at times seem like extreme sadism.

I am not advocating outright suspicion here, the BK offer an incredible amount that is good, but if any student experiences the kind of thinking I have described above and is given no good method for overcoming it, the best thing the student can do is to pull the plug, at least for a short while. There are times when common sense can outstrip divinity. Please do not misunderstand me here, I am not advocating good Old Testament fornication, what I am saying is that ordinary people (shudras) can be and often are a lot kinder than the BK who have forgotten that they were once ordinary too.

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