BKs at Strategies for Overcoming Depression Seminars

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Depression

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Dec 2007

Provided without comment from, Can Meditation Be Bad for You? by Mary Garden. Published in the Humanist, September/October 2007.
Dr. Lorin Roche, a meditation teacher, says a major problem arises from the way meditators interpret Buddhist and Hindu teachings. He points out that meditation techniques that encourage detachment from the world were intended only for monks and nuns. He has spent thirty years doing interviews with people who meditate regularly and says many were depressed. He says they have tried to detach themselves from their desires, their loves, and their passion.

"Depression is a natural result of loss, and if you internalize teachings that poison you against the world, then of course you will become depressed"
.
And better late than never;
The Dalai Lama has said that Eastern forms of meditation have to be handled carefully: "Westerners who proceed too quickly to deep meditation should learn more about Eastern traditions and get better training than they usually do. Otherwise, certain physical or mental difficulties appear."

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Post by mr green » 01 Dec 2007

Seems to make sense, most BKs I knew were either highly strung on in the dumps, including people like Jayanti.

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Post by john morgan » 02 Dec 2007

When a person has genuine difficulties with the Raja Yoga way of life it is best to take it easy. I recall very early on in my study that Dadi Janki said to me "Only do that which is easy." On reflection had I followed that advice things may have turned out better. (Though they're pretty good at the moment)

If one reads Lama Anagarika Govinda (tibetan Buddhism) he talks about preparation. A gradual training before the subconscious is opened. Christmas Humphries (Buddhism and Theosophy) mentions that concentration on a point of light is apt to lead to self hypnosis. Talbot Mundy (Theosophist and ex rogue) says "Seek Wisdom before power."

If there is a problem in my mind it is my problem. I created it and somewhere I have the means of diffusing it. I have life energy it is my responsibility to use it well.

The aim seems to be that God is here, this is the Confluence Age, Madhuban is my spiritual Home, I perform good karma by being in the awareness that I am a soul and sharing my good fortune with others. My thought is elevated and I pass on the good wishes that I have received to others. I am a Brahmin and follow the highest code of conduct.

The only enemy is my own bad karma. This obscures the spiritual memories that are within me. It may be that I think I am misunderstood or undervalued or labelled a Bhagat, it may be that I feel depressed, it may be that I find people continually saying Om Shanti to me extremely annoying. It may be that I perform bad action as a reaction to the ways others have treated me. It may be that I have been judged and found wanting or that I am banned from classes and receipt of Murli's.

It really doesn't matter if one has taken knowledge and feel as a result that I have been damned forever. As soon as I understand that it is all a play of my own karma, that thought and attention are the tools of creation, that I received knowledge for a very good reason on time to the microsecond I can continue constructively.

Mercy and patience are wonderful qualities. To forget my body and bodily relations means to forget all of my shortcomings weaknesses etc perhaps just for a short time. To forget for me means to just put aside mentally. Then a brand new thought creation is possible. It should be gentle loving and intelligent. I am not interested in all the stuff of the world I am interested only in me. I watch as I create gentle thoughts based on knowledge, how I create the thought, can I think it in another way. Very very simple.

Imagination is a fearsome power one should train oneself to use it positively. Perhaps you have heard the story which ends when a lion jumps out and gobbles up the person who thought of it. Similarly imagination can be used for being comfortable relaxed and carefree. It is the last relationship with BapDada which is that of Supreme Judge. To enter that arena one must have explored all other relationships. Go there too soon at your peril!

A creative life is a good life, one in all probability will come across challenges that would crush an average man but we all know that light is stronger than iron, we are all in our own way becoming experienced.

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BKs at Strategies for Overcoming Depression Seminars

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 May 2008

http://www.depressionet.com.au wrote:Spiritual and other strategies for overcoming depression

These seminars will be of interest to those living with depression, those that care for them, and mental health professionals. I have finished writing "BACK FROM THE BRINK TOO: Supporting your loved one in overcoming depression". The seminar will cover some of the insights from the book as well as:
  • · My story of decline and recovery
    · The story of my book "Back from the Brink" and what I learned through writing it
    The findings of the latest research of 3000 people on what works best in overcoming depression
    · Exercise and Nutrition - what's required for a vital body and mind
    · Support of family and friends - findings from my research for BFTBToo
    · Relaxation/Meditation - finding what works for you
    · How to find the right doctor, psychiatrist, therapist
    · What about medication?
    · The importance of finding meaningful work
The sessions will also include a discussion on meditation and an opportunity to trial a technique. These will be an interactive session and there will be ample time for questions and answers.

Sunday May 11, 2007 2.30 - 5.30pm
Baxter on the Mornington Peninsula near Melbourne.
83-99 Stotts Lane
BK Speaker: Charlie Hogg, Director of the Brahma Kumaris Centres in Australia
RSVP Essential bookings.baxter@au.BKWSU.org or 03 5971 1599

Monday May 12, 2007 6.30 - 8.30pm
Michael Chamberlain Lecture Theatre,
St Vincents Hospital, 27 Victoria Pde, Fitzroy
BK Speaker: Charlie Hogg, Director of the Brahma Kumaris Centres in Australia
RSVP Essential bookings.fitzroy@au.BKWSU.org or 03 9417 4883

Tuesday May 13, 2007 9.30 - 12.30pm
Baxter on the Mornington Peninsula near Melbourne.
83-99 Stotts Lane
BK Speaker: Caroline Ward, author, facilitator, change consultant
RSVP Essential bookings.baxter@au.BKWSU.org or 03 5971 1599

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Re: BKs at Strategies for overcoming depression seminars

Post by tete » 27 May 2008

BACK FROM THE BRINK: BOOK WEBSITE

Research cited
iambackfromthebrink wrote:Caution when interpreting results

It is important to interpret the results of this survey with caution. Each individual is unique, and all decisions regarding medication should be made with an appropriate doctor. Importantly, it is likely that some treatments (e.g. a particular antidepressant) might be very effective for one type of depression (e.g. melancholia) but not for others. Also, some of the strategies examined in the survey may have been used on their own, whereas others may have been used in combination with other treatments. For example, a person who rated exercise as ‘moderately effective’ may also have been taking an antidepressant and receiving psychological therapy. As this study was not a randomised controlled trial, we did not control for various factors that could influence ratings of treatment effectiveness. Finally, we did not conduct tests of ‘statistical significance’ between treatments.
RESOURCES in AUSTRALIA

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Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by jaycdp » 29 May 2008

Depression needs to be handled before doing any form of Yoga. It is a myth that depression or stress can be reduced by Yoga, lifestyle or even god himself. If you talk to the god of brahmakumaris, or Virendra Dev Dixit, they will say you need to treat your disease first.

Depression is a disease. It is cased by malfunction of neurotransmitters. We know nerves use transmitters to communicate and serotonin and NE are a major theory that is widely accepted by doctors and scientist all over the world. What hapens when you have not enough NE or serotonin is that you have no control of your emotions. Such as
  • poor concentration ( for example you no longer enjoy a movie or music you used to enjoy before)
    poor sleeping ( too much or too litle sleeping)
    poor eating ( too much or too litle eating)
    poor sex life
    poor work life( too much working or too litle working)
    depression can start sudenly or it can start over life time. for some people it hit like a lightning for some it hit very slowly
What are the treatment option? Best treatment are;
  • SSRIS such as citalopram, fluoxetin or peroxetin (help full if you have no mania or abnormality) if you have normal neuron function, then you may feel odd and you may not be needed to take this.
or a SNRIS such as valnafexin.

Other options
  • St Johns whot or Hypercium (helpful for some and not helpful for others)
    Omega three fatty acid (avoid omega 6 and 9), it is helpful for some people and not helpful for others.
Stress and anxiety need to acessed and treated appropriately. Stress can lead to too much sleep and or too little sleep and this can cause more anxiety. Best treatment for stress
  • aswaganda, lemon balm with Vitamin B complex may be helpful (try one at a time some are stimulant and calming
For some people depression can lead to hard time waking up in the morning. Best way to handle this situation is by
  • walking, biking, swimming (aerobic exercise) at least 30 minutes a day (for severly stressed out people more time may be required).
    aswaganda and lemon balm can help to wake up in the morning and feel good if you are stressed out.( only to certain extent ) because all the drugs used for depression can make you very sleepy in the morning.
There is no magic pill for anxiety. Yoga is the best pill for anxiety and Raja Yoga is even better for anxiety. One cup of beer or one sublingual lorazepam can help to diffuse anxiety for short term.

There are two types of anxiety; chronic and acute. If you are having an acute attack of anxiety then talk to your doctor, he will prescribe you the right drug. Always talk to your doctor before you make medical decision. Only a doctor can diagnose that you have depression or anxiety or stress. So never self-treat. Negative thoughts and suicide thoughts are often seen during depression.

If you feel like or have thoughts coming to kill your self, please keep in mind to go and see a doctor with a friend and keep the friend in contact for at least 2 months during treatment.

Om Shanti

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Re: Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by mr green » 29 May 2008

jaycdp wrote:Depression needs to be handled before doing any form of Yoga. It is a myth that depression or stress can be reduced by Yoga, lifestyle or even god himself. If you talk to the god of brahmakumaris, or Veerendra Dev Dixit, they will say you need to treat your disease first.
This is not true. The senior BKs have no understanding at all of mental illness and have been known many times to prescribe sitting in baba's room as a treatment.

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Re: Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by john morgan » 29 May 2008

That depression is an illness is debateable. One idea is that depression is an effect of thinking depressed thoughts. Change the thoughts and you change the effect. For those who cannot modify their thinking depression is a long term condition.

Good nutrition, proper exercise and flexibility are essential components of a balanced life. Dehydration can be very depressing, to drink more water will eliminate this possibility and will cause no harm. If one is inflexible in thinking a basic course in Hatha Yoga could make the body more flexible and this flexibility could to some extent influence thinking.

The poor sex life aspect of depression as listed by jaycdp could make flirting with depression attractive to those wishing to lead a celibate life. Jokes aside, the taking of prescribed drugs to alleviate depression is a quick fix, it is not a long time cure.

When the alarm bells ring be happy, change is necessary.

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Re: Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by jaycdp » 30 May 2008

Let me make it clear. Depression is not a disease but it is a disorder. An infection due to, say, mycobacterium tuberculosis is a disease. Depression is a disorder.

The theory is it is due to lack of available neurotransmitters in the neurons. Again if you give serotonin tablet to a depressed patient he may not respond to serotonin tablets. Depression is a chemical illness. No Jesus nor Buddha, no Shiva can cure depression.

I would like Dr Shivsena come and talk because he is a practising doctor (even though i am a pharmacist by education, I have never practiced pharmacy in my life). There are depressions that can be treated with Prozac within 6 months to 6 years. Some depression need life-long treatment.

I do not like any religious guru taking advantage of depression. Miracle cures are a myth.

Even Yoga cannot cure depression, cancer, AIDs etc.

If someone claims they can, then they are a cult.

jaycdp

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Re: Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by fluffy bunny » 30 May 2008

I read what john morgan has written but do not know it. I would love some to work out how and demonstrate it empirically. Miracles can happen but who knows how?

Its also worth noting that both "talking" and chemical treatments for depression are neither sure not cost free in side effects. The best likelihood of improvement with either kind of treatment is, basically, 50:50 with perhaps slightly higher results for combines drug and psychotherapies, Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy is the most widely recommended. I think Jay's recommendation of sports/exercise is very good.

Psychic influence, blockages and negative energy (however we understand them, from hate to possession) cannot be removed from the equation but not be turned into a superstition or religion either. Mental health is a broad spectrum of conditions and carried many stigmas. No one single magic bullet.

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Re: Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by peterbindi » 30 May 2008

jaycdp says, "no Shiva can cure depression. Even Yoga cannot cure depression, cancer, AIDs etc."

When I read this, the red flags comes again in my mind. I do not believe this what you say with all respect that you be a doctor. Let's say we were all born healthy, and then become slowly sick in mind and body, is it then that we can not become slowly become healthy in mind and body. There are a lot of stories that people were cured of cancer or tumors etc, that the doctors did not understand.

So please keep a place open in your mind for cure in a different manner than the let say the normal manner.

I think that positive lifestyle and strong intentions can cure a lot of sickness :D.

peterbindi.

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Re: Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by john morgan » 30 May 2008

Certainly Jaycdp, on the strength of his training, believes that psychiatry and its supporting sciences, despite not being areas where creative thought are seen at their best, can provide effective treatments for depression.

Much more progress has over the years been made in treating physical ailments than psychological ones. Nowadays we have heart surgery using small probes whereas thirty years ago to cut a patient's chest open was the only way. But medical science was attempting to treat depression with pills then and it is today doing the same thing albeit with different drugs.

There is a post on this forum http://www.brahmakumaris.info/forum/vie ... esh#p23678 where a BK wife's depression was cured very quickly with knowledge. Science does not recognise the soul and knows little about the power of thought. Its area of investigation is one of chemical imbalances and new drugs to correct those imbalances.

Would the big drug companies who have a vested interest in making profit tell people that they do not need these drugs even if they knew it to be true? I suspect not. It could be considered better business to make profits for the rest of a patients life than to show them how to express creativity and happiness in their own lives by giving them good insight into the nature of thought.

It is not my purpose to go into conspiracy theories etc though medical science does have its limitations. Reading the book "As a Man Thinketh" by James Allen will do a sufferer from depression no harm and is to my mind much more likely to cure them than any pill.

Another dangerous psychiatric resource is electro-convulsive therapy. This barbaric treatment works with a few patients but prior to treatment disclaimers have to be signed. Why? ECT is similar to drugs in that memory loss or other unpleasant side efects may occur. With drugs damage to vital organs, dribbling, involuntary movements of the faces and tongue, fits, toxicity etc can blight or prematurely end a patient's life. Admittedly I've strayed a little here from depression into bipolar and worse but the same thing but to a lesser degree applies.

The greatest pharmacy is the physical body, think continual thoughts of hatred and you become ugly. Think often of hope and love and beauty unfolds. The body makes new drugs everyday it responds to our thoughts ... drug companies eat your heart out!

If anyone needs medical help going to a doctor is sensible. Educating oneself is a lifelong process, anyone who would like a copy of James Allen's insight into right thinking can message me.

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Re: Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by jaycdp » 30 May 2008

Depression is a chemical illness. Sadness is an emotional illness

Sadness can be treated with love and support. A depressed patient cannot respond to love when he is depressed.

I have no influence from pharmaceutical company because i have never worked in a pharmacy or related. I do not have any furhter training in depression like a doctor (a pharmacist has poor knowledge in depression and have good to great knowledge about drugs). Again i am clearly stating there is no miracle. Miracle is a word used by religious people all over the world to manipulate weak people. Psychotherapy is a failure and has never become first line of therapy for any disease or disorder. Cognitive therapy is good for people who are depressed for a reason.

AIDs is a viral disease. Cancer is a proliferative cell disease. This disease could have been prevented with a better life style. Honestly there is no miracle for mental disorder. Mental disorders need support, as much support you can give. The best support is chemicals that balance neurotransmitters. The second support is family, friends, trained staff, trained professionals, an accommodating society or an understanding circle of friends.

Some depression can be corrected with Yoga and love and support only because the individual's brain chemicals re-establishes to normal state with a good environment which is not always true for all patients. In USA, they prescribe more anti-depressants than any country in the world. I think India should follow the same line. Anti-depressants are vitamin P (Prozac) and does very little harm. (Prozac can be taken throughout the life and do little harm), simple food like french fries can do more harm if you take through out the life time.

Pharmaceutical companies are not evil, people who lead to bad life style and bring disease are the evil. Pharmaceutical companies are the saviors.

jayadeepan

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Re: Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by john morgan » 30 May 2008

In the foreword of Aldous Huxley's book 'Brave New World' he wrote, "On no account experience chronic despair" recognise your fault resolve, to change, and move on. A recent post on this forum said, "Guilt is useful for just five seconds." Both these quotes from different times, places and people recognise that man can to some extent and maybe more than that choose his emotions.

The notions that pill makers could be the saviours of the depressed and that all talk of miracles is for manipulating weak people sound like a cracked bell to me, miracles do happen. That Jayadeepan should have found his way to this forum without being aware of what most people can do for themselves is most definitely a miracle. :D Not a bad start eh?

I am fairly certain that Jayadeepan has not taken his own medicine. The James Allen way is no quick fix, it takes longer but it is a cure and there are no dithpicabull (as bugs bunny would say) side effects. It is far easier to pop a pill than it is to change oneself, trouble is you have to keep on popping and popping and pop ...!

If it is said that depression exists for no reason it could mean that no reason exists but it could also mean that no reason has yet been found. CBT helps people to help themselves. Even though no reason is often found for depression the drug companies still by default insist that the reason is chemical imbalance else there would be little point in prescribing drugs which attempt to "correct" such imbalances. Saviours of the depressed? Hmmm.

Time does not permit me to respond to every aspect of a wide ranging post, thanks Jayadeepan.

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Re: Depression, stress, Yoga and nutrition

Post by jaycdp » 30 May 2008

John morgan

depression does happen with a cause sometimes such as a Father passing away. I have personally witnessed people suffering this type of depression and, honestly, 6 month therapy with pill helped the person come of out of bed and live a real life again. 90% of the time, this kind of attachment can be grieved without pill. When the normal support process does not work then you need pill.

I am not encouraging any one to take pill right away. You can try exercise (aerobic), it works for most of the people. Diet and friends and family support works most of the time. But there are some cases they need pills for example diet and your traditional therapy fails then you can go to pills. Most of the time patients come out of depression in 1 year therapy. Some patients need 5 to 6 year therapy. Some patients need life long therapy.

These are the things never happened to our traditional life. So it is very hard to accept it. This is just like a young person having grey hair. That person does not need to be treated for grey hair because it is not affecting his life. There are people in India who do not why this depression happens and they some times go backward in their life. They cannot be competitive any longer, so some of them kill themselves or some of them cannot live their life to the full potential.

For example, a bank accountant cannot function as a bank accountant any longer because of mild form of depression. He loses his job, he loses his faith in himself, his family suffer etc. In India, this bank accountant does not believe he is suffering from depression, he will turn to devotion. Some become prey for Christian missionaries, others become prey for Brahmakumari missionaries. And there are lot of bhagaths in India too.

I am expecting a 100 million indians suffer from some form of depression and at least 50 million need SSRIs (pills). There are more examples every day. A student who has a potential to graduate with grade A will become a victim of grade D minus. Depression goes on destroying people in all forms.

jayadeepan

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