Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by fluffy bunny » 19 May 2008

Its true ... comforting at time and informative but "not to base one's life decisions on" would be my experience. Useful for a "second opinion" all the same. Its unfortunate that there are not more enlightened spirits floating around, one needs to keep one's feet on the ground whilst dealing with them.

I am just surprised, given all the spookery surrounding the BKWSU, that other BKs have not been found channelled elsewhere. I am particularly interested at what the "Spirit World" makes of the BKWSU beliefs and guides because they do much contradict each other.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by john morgan » 19 May 2008

The book "Journey of Souls" which was mentioned by Tete in the Hello from Daughter of BK thread may give a view of beyond the grave and corresponding insight into this life. Well, the author and many readers have thought so. A comforting read apparently. I found it on Amazon. There is a short preview and many have reviewed it.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by fluffy bunny » 19 May 2008

I don't need general spiritualistic points of view (and especially not mad colonel ones), I was wondering about SPECIFIC tales or research. For example, someone sit down with a non-BK channeller, call back the soul of a Dadi/BK/enlightened master and asking them straight about the BKWSU.

Why beat around the bush and dwell in our own opinions when we can put it all to practise? Get the bottomline on the BKWSU, Lekhraj Kirpalani etc from the deceased Dawn Griggs or some other dead BKs ... or the spirit world itself.

Personally, in a toss up between spiritualism and BK-ism, I would give spiritualism the benefit of the doubt and go along with their bigger vision of reality. It appears to be far more universally accepted the world over. I am fully prepared to discover that Lekhraj Kirpalani's world might just be one little bubble INSIDE the greater "spirit world" and would love to hear him muse on life OUTSIDE of the BKWSU, free from the constraints of BK-isms. I would just like 2 or 3 such opinions, not one. One could not trust that a spirit claiming to Dadi So-and-so was Dadi So-and-so any more than you could believe what the BKWSU is saying in the Prakashmani topic elsewhere.

This is headed off topic but I mention it again. Funnily enough, the only other psychic sort to list or recognise Lekhraj Kirpalani as some kind of initiate master is Benjamin Creme's Maitreya lot which puts him slightly above Alvar Aalto and Bertolt Brecht but well behind Johannes Brahms and William Brandt. Don't ask me how ... I am here and now.

I do not think people should put themselves in a position to throw away their lives on any of this stuff. Kripalani became Kripalani because he want out and 'did' not 'followed'.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by john morgan » 19 May 2008

The book is written by a hypnotherapist called Michael Newton is he a mad colonel ?

I am so glad that you can decide for yourself what you need and what you don't etc.

I met Bejamin Creme once in London, I was driving, we talked for 20 to 30 minutes. He wasn't very interesting for me.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by fluffy bunny » 19 May 2008

Same rule applies ... OK, let's hypnotically regress a cross section of BKs, and keep regressing them back, and see what they all come up with ... but not talk theory.

I would say Dr. Newton, as the founder of The Society for Spiritual Regression, is a pretty straight down the line spiritualist now. The "Life Betweeen Lives" does not really exist, and outrightly challenges, the authority of the BKWSU. What he recounts as "Soul group clusters" is more suitable to a point that I was raising in the newcomer's forum re the BKs being one's "spiritual family".

But I would still like someone like you to get real about it yourself rather than picking up a book. Let us not theorise but go see if we can speak to Ranjana Boles or Dawn Griggs.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by paulkershaw » 19 May 2008

ex-l wrote: I am just surprised, given all the spookery surrounding the BKWSU, that other BKs have not been found channelled elsewhere. I am particularly interested at what the "Spirit World" makes of the BKWSU beliefs and guides because they do much contradict each other.
I think its often a case of "Hello Hello? Sorry the ghost you're trying to reach is unavailable, please leave a message after the beep. Beep."

Or else the departed 'ghost/spirit really couldn't be bothered connecting anymore. Probably a wise move.

Alternative thought here is that possibly, and due to the belief system about ghosts and spirits generally taught in the BK fiefdom, that the departed BK being doesn't believe they can connect any longer ... Or they're so truly blissed out they don't care to - having once again met up with BB.

I don't really know - all I know is that those in the Spirit realms generally speaking, are only interested in guiding and assisting on an individual level; thus promoting planetary change in consciousness. And that each 'master' being has their own role and teachings to portray. What I do notice though, that in terms of world teachings not one of the Ascended Masters that I know of, even mentions the BKWSO or BB or ShivBaba either. So it does seem that BK/PBK/Other BK style parties really have a belief system and a deep seated need within (a guru figurehead perhaps?) that they have to have a 'living' figure in order to reach 'God' - despite the BKWSO teaching that its is not so.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder, but I do find myself saying that a lot today. Must be important, to me.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by john morgan » 19 May 2008

Its not really for me ex-I, I am much more interested in this life and its possibilities.

Interfering in or observing anyone elses rebirth process cannot be a good thing, God help the researcher who meddles in mine. :D

Seriously, I know nothing about rebirth, even if it exists - only what others have said or written. The distinction between life energy and matter is clear, as are sanskaras, these things are useful for me.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by worldpeace » 20 May 2008

Strange that I never came across this piece of news. It's really a sad incident. But there are countless other crimes against women and the poor that happen everyday here. And there just doesn't seem to be any end and none of the karmic explanations convinces me thoroughly.

By the way, ex-I, from where do you track the news on Dawn Griggs? All my searches on google news on various keyword combinations did not return any relevant result. I am just wondering if BKs have become as powerful as chinese in censoring the news :).

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by fluffy bunny » 22 May 2008

worldpeace wrote:By the way, ex-I, from where do you track the news on Dawn Griggs? ... I am just wondering if BKs have become as powerful as chinese in censoring the news :)
Well, its true. I did once see a letter from the BKWSU influencing, or attempting to influence, Google to remove uncomfortable information ... and so we can guess other internet sources too. Other members have detailed similar media manipulation in India etc. Do I believe they would and do continue? Yes, absolutely. Just look at the spin around 'The Tao of the Traveller' movie.

But, no, in the first place "Google is my friend". What I am trying to do more and more is use services like Webcite to store pages and download snapshots of them as I go, either as source HTML or PDFs. That way we can track the changes.

Revising the forum the other day, I was also reminded about the BK brother who murdered another BK brother with a knife in another center. The issue for me here is not that "bad things happen". Of course they do. It is either the fallibility, malleableness and manipulativeness of the BK god and its messages ... or that one needs to entire review the manner in which the channelled messages are interpreted because they are proven not to be true.

If God says, "you won't be harmed ... not a hair on your head" and evidence clearly shows BKs ARE being harmed in terrible, terrible manners, then BKs are being deeply and willfully misled either by the spook or the leadership ... or both. And they are. And worse than they are, the leadership is burying it so as to defend the myth they are milking and encourage false confidences. Quite frankly, and I know BKs read and feedback my posts, I am building up a good case of "undue influence".

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by fluffy bunny » 22 May 2008

Update ...
A Traveller wrote:sightseeing & backpacking ... April 2004

08/04/04 All quiet on the Airport front

I am thrilled: a family visit, my sister Marion is coming for a month to India. Since I know how chaotic and unpleasant it is to arrive in Delhi in the middle of the night I pick her up from the airport. The EATS (Ex-Servicemen's Air Link Transport Service) runs an airport bus from Connaught Place, cheap and best I think. Unfortunately there's a breakdown in logic in terms of the operating times though; the bus is almost regular during the afternoon when there are hardly any flights, but in the evening or at night when most international planes depart or arrive there's one at 7 pm, the next at 10 and the last at 11 pm. But never mind. The arrivals procedure at Indira Gandhi airport has changed, probably partly as a result of the recent murder of Australian Dawn Griggs by a taxi driver near the airport. The Delhi Traffic Police Prepaid Taxi booth is now ONLY past the restricted area, just outside the arrival hall building. There is no intimidating crowd of porters and taxi drivers trying to pull us away. The prepaid slip is computerised, nobody tries to drag us to the wrong taxi. When the taxi leaves the area, the driver's name, the taxi number plate and our details are recorded by police. Once we're on the way the driver turns round and says "You give me 100 Rupees baksheesh." Aaah, so not everything has changed then!

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by bkti-pit » 22 May 2008

ex-l wrote:6/7/1981 Avyakt Bap - Dada Revision Course Murli

Bap Dada is with you. No one can do anything to you. They cannot do anything! it has been said that the kittens remained safe even though they were in the burning furnace. Nothing happened to them.

They cannot harm even one hair on your head. It is not an ordinary being that is with you. It is the Almighty Authority.
First, I would like to say that this is a bit misleading. I mean one has to put it into the perspective of the context in which this Murli was spoken. I invite all the folks to read the whole Murli in the Download section: BK 1976 Destruction Murli. The original date of the Murli is not given but it seems to be of the 18th of January 1977. BapDada is addressing the issue of the failed prediction of the Destruction for 1976.
But don’t allow yourself to come into a state of upheaval because of Destruction. Your upheaval will cause upheaval in those who don’t know. If you remain steady and unshakable and always speak with intoxication and fearlessness, then others will automatically be silent. They will not be able to say anything. Have faith in the intellect yourself. There should not be any doubt in your intellect, even in the form of thoughts. The royal form of doubt is, “It should have happened like this”. “I don’t know why Baba said such a thing”. If Baba was to tell you in advance, how could we face others? This royal form of doubts will make you the instruments to create doubts in the intellects of others also. Yes it has been said and we will continue to do this. Remain in this faith and intoxication and they will bow in front of you and give thanks to your faith. Do you understand? There is no need to be confused. Are you afraid that you might be sent to jail? Perhaps there isn’t fear but there is confusion. Do you not have the power to stand for the truth? Tell them simply, whatever was said had benefit and there is still benefit and we still continue to say the same thing. If you tell them with Godly intoxication and with entertainment, they will laugh, but firstly, make yourself strong. Understand? Everyone’s thoughts reached today and everyone has the anticipation, “What will Baba speak on the 18th?” and so you now have heard it. BapDada is with you. No one can do anything to you. They cannot do anything! it has been said that the kittens remained safe even though they were in the burning furnace. Nothing happened to them. They cannot harm even one hair on your head. It is not an ordinary being that is with you. It is the Almighty Authority and so with faith in the intellect, have victory.
This being said and although Baba often says also in the Murlis that if you go bankrupt or fall ill it is your karma and don't ask for blessings from God, I agree that it is a common belief amongst BKs that nothing will happen to them because they are under God's protection and this is often reinforced in classes by Seniors or Sisters-in-charge, e.g. that at the end when the scenes of Destruction will come we will be safe in Madhuban or in the Subtle Regions, that sorts of things.

I also agree that the teachings of the Murlis are not all so clear and are thus easily subjected to be used in a manipulative and abusive way.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by fluffy bunny » 22 May 2008

bkti-pit wrote:First, I would like to say that this is a bit misleading. I mean one has to put it into the perspective of the context in which this Murli was spoken ... I agree that it is a common belief amongst BKs that nothing will happen to them because they are under God's protection and this is often reinforced in classes by Seniors or Sisters-in-charge ... I also agree that the teachings of the Murlis are not all so clear and are thus easily subjected to be used in a manipulative and abusive way.
Thank you. Fair comment all round. There are those that take everything spoken as verbatim truth applicable to every moment and I have heard it said more widely than just this Murli, so it has entered into the BK 'Urban Legend'. I'd like to be able to search all the Murlis and see if or how often it turns up.

This is where it would be brilliant to have all the Murlis (and major classes if needs be) in a database like, here or here (loose examples only) to check on just that.
Avyakt BapDada spoke not wrote:23rd November 1979

Right up to the end some will have the sanskars of servants, and others the sanskars of rulers. Don’t expect others to change their sanskars, but remain beyond their influence. Remain the observer, detached like a lotus. What harm can others do then? Let them continue to speak, but you don’t have to listen.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by john morgan » 22 May 2008

I am hoping that someone can fill me in on the 1976 Prediction of Destruction.

Who started it?

Was it in a Murli?

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by john morgan » 22 May 2008

If a person truly feels that the holiest of holies, the source of all strengths is with them they do have an umbrella of protection. The degree to which qualities are experienced is one of proximity.

"And did the countenance divine shine forth upon these clouded hills"

Extract from the Christian hymn Jerusalem by William Blake.

"Instant karmas out to get you, its going to knock you off your feet"
by John Lennon

Karma is an explanation for the feeling of estrangement from God - and ourselves.

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Re: Rape motive suspected in BK killing - RIP BK Dawn Griggs

Post by bkti-pit » 22 May 2008

We have a brother in New York (his name is RamPrakash) who was working at the World Trade Center when it got hit by an airplane on the famous 9/11. He had the common sense to run down the stairs immediately whilst many stayed in their office waiting for official orders to evacuate. He came out of the building minutes before it collapsed. God's protection? Maybe but what about all the others who escaped?

Someone else from his office decided to come down later and was still at the 20th floor when the building collapsed but woke up later with sunshine on the face and was pulled out of the rubble. Someone else from the same office was handicapped and using a wheelchair. That day his car wouldn't start and he could not make it to work. If he had been there he could not have been able to come down the stairs. Elevators were out. God's protection?

There are tons of examples of non-BKs being miraculously saved and many feel that God saved them. Anything making the BKs different from others in this respect?

I do believe in the Law of Karma but do not agree with the simplistic views that are often put forward: if you are wealthy in this life it is a good karma from a previous birth, if you get your butt kicked it is because you kicked someone's but in the past. I think it is a bit more complex and nuanced than that.

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